just remove the rush/leap ability. The fact they can sustain themselves with healing to get over breakpoints and also have a get out of jail free card is way too strong on a T2.
4 Likes
I feel at the rate we are going; someone is just going to gut the entire strain from the game at some point or transform it into a useless one.
I do not play the role, but this is just my personal observation.
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warrior still around here and seems like it’s not going no where and i don’t think vampires annoying af like warriors
Warrior is fine because he doesnt have a get out of jail free card, large hitbox, and doesnt self heal on the front line. Another problem with vampire is the fact that the speed is so good that he can effectively do what a runner does by causing a ton of FF while trying to kill him but has enough health to not eat shit like a runner.
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Woyer has the ability to self heal…
3 Likes
he gets shield but point taken. still i think the fact that warrior cant just leave is a big difference. Warrior has to commit way harder to get kills where vampire can just run in and use its speed to cause FF and dodge tank
Woryer has not had shield for years. All xeno shielding outside of gardender drone strain is LONG gone.
these nerfs are stupid. if the tailjab PR goes through as is then the vamp lurker will be the only T2 combat caste without a stun (very nice!). i don’t know why people keep targeting the tailjab. it’s obviously not the biggest problem vamps have; it’s the fact they have insane speed on weeds and the cooldown on rush is too short.
just lessen the speed they have, up the rush cooldown and there you go, a decent nerf (in my honest and humble and always objectively correct opinion). though i don’t really think they need to be nerfed anyhow. OWL going ham and getting 30-odd kills is not really that different from DP and their goon squad going to town as warrior (and i am convinced OWL is stealing some kills with headbite, cuz that’s all vamps r good for… bloody kill thieves…)
Vamp lurker should’ve been a runner variant
It’s already basically a T2 Runner but with extra Lurker hp and damage, it’s wholly an have your cake and eat it too caste
last i checked vamp has 390 health, and can be easily crumple seated by a single marine with a shotgun, but he does not have the insane speed of a runner (he’s fast, but not runner fast) and his damage and healing are not good enough to keep him alive in a regular fight unless the player is cracked and would have won with drone too.
Rush C/D is a bit too low though, I agree. If you want to balance it, give him more stun vulnerability and up his health a little so the healing matters more.
That tiny decrease in HP is more than compensated for by warrior levels of armour (20).
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(I’m basing my quick mathssssss on wiki, don’t scream if it is incorrect)
Shotgun does 48 dmg with one pellet on 20 armor, which is vampire lurker.
48 * 4 = 192 One PB damage.
192 * 2 = 384 Two PB damage
390 - 384 = 6
Vampire survives 2 PBs, barerly, but he does.
192 * 3 = 576
Warrior survives 2 PBs, but not 3.
500 - 384 = 116 HP left. 110 HP adventage for warrior when it comes to PBs, he can survive some cheap damage afterwards.
Flurry is just a warrior’s punch, but better.
Tail Jab is just a warrior’s fling, but better.
Rush is not that easly comparable to lunge, one of the three adventages warrior has.
But rush is a Get Out Of Jail free card, because lunge can’t be used to escape, so it is kind of a sidegrade.
Ironically this means that warrior is better against lone marines than vampire is because of lunge and healing each slash 20 HP, but vampire is better against groups as he can escape easly.
Vampire lurker is a faster warrior, only slightly less tanky. He can be just as easly crumpled by a single marine with shotgun as warrior can, but warrior is slower.
Vampire could be just a warrior strain. Unironically.
7 Likes
There’s a massive disconnect in the progression of the castes right now.
The defender is a tanky frontliner meant to hold the line and halt the marines…so it evolves into a squishy ambush backliner whose main utility is picking off lone marines for easy caps or kills. Then this squishy assassin evolves either into a, once again, tanky bruiser meant to disrupt marine formations and crush them underfoot, or become the most versatile caste in their roster that can do a little bit of everything except be an unkillable tank.
And the runner, a backliner meant to harrass and weaken and even cap when it can, evolves into a literal one xeno army who can just slaughter its way through entire bands of marines no matter if it’s on the front or in the back, and with the Ravager it just becomes that yet stronger still, minus the sustainability that vampires get.
Why the frontliner becomes a backliner and the backliner becomes a frontliner is beyond me, but it’s really kinda silly. The only line that stays consistent really is the sentinel. You go from a hit and runner with ranged attacks to help you close the gap then escape, to a dedicated ranged attacker, to just a literal artillery piece (or the versatile Praetorian which can basically just become a T3 spitter with some of its strains.)
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ive literally gotten players like owl with 2 pbs and they just leap away. most frustrating and undeserved shit ever. Also we think of tanky in terms of literal armor and health but vamp is also a dodge tank on top of everything. He gets a speed boost just for existing and is really hard to PB.
oh yeah xenos are getting buffed as well just in general. marines have been losing what feels like 90% of the time but we can’t check because reasons
I bet that 390 HP was made on purpose. Not the only one with QuickMathssss™ here. Deliberately against buckshot and knowing full well BC was removed.
If you want to design a caste, or strain and be slimey about it, just give it instant transportation ability like rush, or pounce.
Vampire Lurker is better at being warrior than warrior is, unless you want to cap.
90%? This is ridiculous, I recently had access to marine/xeno major numbers and ran statistics on them.
As of now, xeno and marine win rates are close to 50% 50% with chi squared statistical tests showing no significant differences between the two.
The only statistically significant difference between the two is how their wins are spread in population numbers: Xenos on average have majors when the marine population is 78.8, marines have on average their majors when the marine population is 86.3.
The difference between these two averages is significant with p-value = 1.13e-05 < 0.05
3 Likes
vamp is already balanced
/thread
considering xeno minors come as a result of them getting obliterated during hijack you might as well count them as marine majors because no one besides coping xenos yell “XENO MINOR XENO MINOR”. numbers are slightly skewed due to lowpop stomps without gas + turrets. take the numbers as you will, game is pretty equally balanced in terms of win rates
how do i know you did that. why can’t we just show who won the round publicly rather than me having to come bitch at the forum and yell at clouds?
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Its worth mentioning that from what I have read of the stats, Marines experience much higher loss rates at lower pop whereas Xenos experience higher loss rates at higher pop.