Continuation of: HvH Event Feedback/Ideas
This thread serves as a central area to gather more long-form or in-depth feedback and suggestions for the HvH gamemode/event.
Wiki articles for further info
With all the balancing, it feels like it has lost a lot of its soul. Every gun having to be the same, every armour being the same, every ammo is the same, and now every attachement being the same/removed.
It lost what was fun with it, and now its going into the area of a competative shooter.
3 Likes
The Type 23 Heavy Slugs are extremely strong, and can heartbreak people with 2 shots to the chest. Since it has 30 AP, it will also kill B18 specs in 2 shots.
Mortars are extremely strong when they’re set up in the vicinity of the enemy base - though this has always been true for HvH.
The Type 64 is awful. It can ONLY fit rail attachments, and even then has a very high scatter making it almost completely useless. Attachment parity should be extended in general, since a lot of attachments don’t fit on a lot of UPP guns where they would fit on their USCM counterparts.
all i have to say is i love HvH, the UPP ship has USCM food vendors, and maybe make cuffs more available so both sides can capture people easier instead of leaving them to rot
3 Likes
when it comes to attachments I plan to remove all attachments except for those that drasticly change how you use the gun and somewhat have drawback, mag harness,( rail light), bayonet, ubs, ubg, ubf, thsupressor, the shotgun choke, the smg thingy that makes it not drop it, no idea if I am missing some, yes the expndable m41a stock. it makes the guns way more balanced as some attahcments are just +30 dmg due to accuracy being a thing unlike HvX and attachemnts being pwoercreeped to hell
Personally, I enjoy HvH more than HvX. I like the combat aspect of HvH as it feels abit more balanced but yeah, shotguns are overpowered in HvH combat. Though disregarding that its still pretty fun that both sides are nearly equal. I like the idea of taking a break from fighting xenomorphs to fighting fellow humans.
My suggestion like many others would be to add HvH as a gamemode when its finished development.
It was really easy to break out of the prison area. Unless you want chaos shipside UPP maybe upgrade the windows. Otherwise let the riots commence.
This is a fair issue. For the time being I’ll just bwoink people who do it. Could be a wish-list item for the future.
I agree there is still room for gun balance, but I don’t want the guns for both factions to be just 1:1 copies of each other.
There should be AP mags, but they are less common.
The eternal balance wars continue.
I think its a consequence of making the game mode actually playable. Previously, its a huge effort to make it run, and the online staff spend all their time putting out fires to keep the mode running. Now, the game runs mostly smoothly with no intervention needed, and people rarely run in to issues.
I disagree its lost its “soul”, its just more streamlined.
I’ll have to investigate the balance issues. But thanks for letting us know.
I have to make a few changes, but more content is coming. I’ll have to fix the food issue.
I’d love to one day see this game mode as a vote able option, but I don’t think we’re anywhere close to it yet.
There are blast doors the UPP can close from the Security checkpoint to keep this from occurring. But i can make these hull windows for the future.
From the two tests (both as Marine) today:
CQB combat is generally really fun, it’s tense and ducking in and out of cover to shoot enemies is cool and can be fun- but..
- Out of cover, the accuracy debuff is really obvious and it looks kinda mid. I was dragging a Marine back, and a UPP guy ran right into me from maints. We were 4 tiles apart, we began shooting eachother and we were both matrix dodging bullets despite being functionally point-blank. It’s kinda silly, and doesn’t feel good, and kinda highlights how strong the debuff is.
- Corpsmen who haven’t played before aren’t aware that you can defib through armour, maybe a custom defib or something would be a good way to indicate it?
- Mortar has no counter strategy except pushing into it, Bino range is too small for you to find it and laze it to force it to move. Whoever is pushing gets the advantage of the mortar firing.
- Bino Range is too small, it kinda sucks- with how strong accuracy debuff is, it doesn’t make sense to have it.
- Mortar firing into FOB is insane, having a range doesn’t change that at all.
TLDR. What would be nice to change?:
- Remove Specialists from base game
- Don’t let mortar fire into FOBs (possible since LZs are nightmare inserts
) - Fix Binos being so stunted.
binos are gona stay the same, I would remove the zoom compleatly but I kinda needed it for the coords getting and such. even with how minor it is it gives you HUGE advantage by giving you option to decide if you want to engage enemy or not based on the extra information. ehhh someone could revive the AA gun PR possibly. after I get a degree (or fail that for the time being) I am gona look at the balance PR 2 again but that is like 3 -5 months. I could flat reduce ammo dmg to allow for a bit of acc buff alongside the attachments removals. ehhh I am preaty sure marines do not have base game specs anymore.
We can just block the usage of spray bottle weapons by denying people the usage of weapons skills IF I remember correctly, spraying certain kinds of chemicals is linked to weapon skill.
I dont want to touch balance stuff myself.
As for the prisoner issues, we can easily make zip-cuffs more available; there may be an incentive to add a custom ERT for prisoner transfer, allowing dead players to come back, and RP would be good, too.
food is an easy fix.
if synths can not do it so can not humans during ceasefire, all ceasefire does it that I force everyone to be synth if I am not mistaken
i meant removing them from distress signal, but yeah i see the rest 
welp I would, but it is not desired. so they are just gona stay
damb, well I believe the weapons skill restriction applies to CLF spray bottles does it not?
ah nah, now I see it, I just added second check to where the weapon restrictions were and the spray battle stuff was done after ehhhh … I am gona fix it… should do it prevents harmful spray on ceasefire by cuberound · Pull Request #9068 · cmss13-devs/cmss13 · GitHub
the fun of HvH is what you make of it, not all the RP has to be derived out of le shooting
in a similar vein, it would be a balancing nightmare if we DID make unique guns (which is what we had when this was very first tested, ended up in 500 UPP stomps because it wasn’t taken into account i guess that ERT guns are inherently stronger than the chud Marine ones)
2 Likes
Agreed. Aside from medics, engineers, and the basic rifleman you could alter the way each faction works a bit to give them some flavor.
CLF are great faction in this regard because they’re not a formal military force. If it turns out a CLF “rifleman” with a basic kit of a MAR-30/40 is too strong, you could always have there be clf soldiers with weaker gear to help fill out their side. You could go further and do things like spread out what kind of ammo can be used by what gun. No AP ammo for the MAR guns, but maybe they can use m-16s for that. This way they can’t be like the marines whose primary weapon also shares the same ammo type with the mk1, battlerifle, and HPR. And because CLF don’t have OB or CAS, we could give them their own type of support weapon. I like the idea of jerry rigged combat joes. Not full combat synths that can use guns(or have building/medical skills), just working joes with some armor slapped on them and some melee weapons that you let loose in as a group.
I realy do not see how are people complaining about not having enough options on HvH you have WAY more then on HvX, all the main stuff from HvX is still good and there is capload of stuff that is total useless garbage agains xenos but viable for HvH. it rahter looks like most people just grab and do the same stuff as when it comes to HvX and just do not experiment to see unique ways they can aproach the gamemode. all the guns are somewhat viable, yes there are issues with SG and the machinepistol but other then that they are all decent ish, especily unlike HvX doing any amount of harm is rewarding as the other side can not heal it super easily. enemies are humans so they can be harmed in way more ways then xenos , even hand to hand combat is technicly viable, all nades are decent unlike when used on xenos where some are just worse then shooting your rifle. And unlike HvX you have the option to surrender and negotiate. the main parts that make it less fun are how short can the rounds be
1 Like
Eh. I mostly played UPP in the HvH games i did play, and theres like 3 guns which you can pick. The Type 71, The type 71 but better (carbine), and the shotty. Everything else (right now) is either a peashooter, or has such shit accuracy you won’t hit an enemy 3 tiles away. And right now, I don’t actually see anything redeemable about the non-carbine Type 71, as its litterary the same, but with almost twice the firerate, for 20% less damage (137 dps vs 176), while also being more fun to use (faster shooting gun make monkey brain happy).
But for when it comes to soul. I honestly liked it better when the factions had their own advantages and disadvantages. Like how UPP has the best in your face damage and armor, but the UA have better tool dispersal, stronger specs (or atleast had), and just generally greater versitility (also made me think of the comparison between the allies and soviets in RA1). Albeit, I know it would be a lot harder to balance the factions like this.
So all in all. It kinda lost what was special about it, and has now become more of a “Pick the best thing you can, otherwise you will die without doing something”.