ihatethisengine2 - Player Report: Grant Thomas, Rule 11: Marine Law

[ihatethisengine]

ihatethisengine2 - Player Report: Grant Thomas, Rule 11: Marine Law

What’s your BYOND key?

ihatethisengine2

Round ID:

19696

Your character name:

Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber

Accused BYOND key:

Unknown

Accused character name:

Grant Thomas

What rule(s) were broken?:

Rule 11: Marine Law

Description of the incident:

This situation is hard to explain, but it suffices to say I (Alamo PO) got in bad terms with my DCC (Derrick Warner). At some point in round I wanted to deliver the nuke, so I returned to Alamo cockpit (I had to man Normandy for a while since its PO cryoed), and found the DCC there. I already told him that I don’t want to see him in my cockpit (for a very important reason, he “roleplayed” farting twice there, he was even given NJP for this earlier, but this is way out of the scope of this report). I tried to move him out of the cockpit, he came back, then I started to shove him. We exchanged some shoves, but then suddenly he drew his shotgun and attacked me several times. Luckily for me, his shotgun was empty, but he kept trying to shoot me, bashing me in the process. I need to say that clicking sound and loading sound are quite similar, thus I didn’t want to risk it, so I drew my gun and shot him back. Once. It wasn’t enough for him, he kept trying to shot me again, emitting the clicking (similar to loading, I was under impression he did load it at some moment, plus I did kinda panic) sound in the process, so I had to shoot him again. But I am not reporting the DCC for this, my issue is with the MP, who was aboard at the moment, was a witness to the whole deal and arrested me for murder, and put me in permabrig later. More than that, he didn’t arrest the DCC, saying “his gun was empty”, as if it somehow clears him from attempted murder:

Attempted Murder
Attempting to murder a person but failing to do so. If the evidence shows that the arrested person was clearly trying to kill someone with ill intent but failed in the action itself. 

Self-Defense and the Defense of Others

Criminal charges are not to be applied to those who use force on others when defending themselves from illegal use of force, so long as they defend themselves with proportional force. This right extends to the defense of others, should there be a reason to believe they are in lethal danger. This provision does not apply to lawful killings such as executions.

Proportional Force
    Punching against being punched.
    Melee weapons against melee weapons.
    **Guns against guns.**
    The person defending should only return with lethal force until the other person is unable to attack the defendant.
        The defendant should notify MP’s or his command about the use of self-defense.
The person being attacked should also look to get away from the other attacker if possible, and alert the MP’s.

The DCC clearly tried to kill me, but failed to do so, but he didn’t get arrested, while me, who acted in self-defense, did. This was quite frustrating to see a platinum MP to make such a weird judgement, while he clearly saw me being attacked with a shotgun. I couldn’t appeal or call provost, because the round ended, this is why I am filling this player report.

Evidence:

Sadly I have most combat logs disabled, so you can see only a part here. You probably need to pull more logs, to make it clear I didn’t make the second shot before the DCC tried to shoot me again.

Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber attempted to disarm Derrick Warner!
PFC Kyle Sabitix [JTAC (OT)] says, “Other ot is gonna get me coerdinate.”
You buckle yourself to the chair.
Derrick Warner has shoved Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson talks into the marine intel radio headset
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “But it’s on the Alamo.”
Derrick Warner has pushed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
Derrick Warner attempted to disarm Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Get the fuck out.”
Derrick Warner has shoved Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
2ndLt Anna Malenkov [Command (CE)] says, “I believe I can arm it.”
Derrick Warner has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber passively!
You can’t resist in your current state.
You unbuckle yourself from the chair.
You cannot go this way.
x2

Capt Nathaniel ‘Nat’ Bennet [Command (XO)] says, “If CE cant ill come do it”
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber attempted to disarm Derrick Warner!
x3

Derrick Warner has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber passively!
x2

You cannot go this way.
x9

Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber has disarmed Derrick Warner!
Derrick Warner has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber passively!
You buckle yourself to the pilot’s chair.
Derrick Warner buckles in!
Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson talks into the marine intel radio headset
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “I can try, but I don’t know if I can.”
Sgt Derrick Warner says, “Yeah fuck off idiot.”
Sgt Derrick Warner says, “You’re insane.”
You begin the launch sequence to Hangar Landing Zone.
You unbuckle yourself from the pilot’s chair.

You have nothing to drop in your hand!
Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson talks into the marine intel radio headset
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “Going to find out soon enough.”
Derrick Warner was unbuckled by Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber has pushed Derrick Warner!
Sgt Derrick Warner says, “Autopilot was still on you fucking nutter.”
You buckle yourself to the pilot’s chair.
ARES v3.2 Bioscan Status

Bioscan complete.

Sensors indicate no unknown lifeform signatures present on the ship and approximately 5 signatures located elsewhere, including one in Fiorina - Green Block Residences.
The Alamo crew hatch airlock emits a loud thunk, then a click.
x2

You unbuckle yourself from the pilot’s chair.
Derrick Warner is buckled in to the pilot’s chair by Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber attempted to disarm Derrick Warner!
x2

Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber has disarmed Derrick Warner!

Derrick Warner was unbuckled by Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
Sgt Derrick Warner says, “What is your problem”
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber attempted to disarm Derrick Warner!
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “You.”
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber has been hit in the chest with M37A2 pump shotgun by Derrick Warner!
Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber has been bashed in the chest with M37A2 pump shotgun by Derrick Warner!
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Idiot.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Wow.”
The shrapnel sticks in the wound!
Sgt Derrick Warner screams!
You hear a loud cracking sound coming from Derrick Warner!
You buckle yourself to the pilot’s chair.
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson asks, “… are you serious?”
Sgt Alexander Wolff(as Alexander Wolff) says, “What the fuck”

Derrick Warner seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless…
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Nice try.”
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson says, “Right in front of the MP.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Damn thats kinda rough”
Sgt Alexander Wolff(as Alexander Wolff) says, “That’s wild”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He was trying to shoot me.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Anyways you are under arrest for murder”
Grant Thomas points to the pilot’s chair
The Alamo crew hatch airlock emits a click, then hums slightly.
x2

Grant Thomas unbuckled !
Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson unbuckled !
Sgt Alexander Wolff(as Alexander Wolff) says, “Nah, he’s chill”

2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “It was self defence.”
Unknown (as Alexander Wolff) unbuckled !
Grant Thomas tries to put the handcuffs on Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber.
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “You saw it.”
You were unbuckled from the pilot’s chair by Grant Thomas.
Grant Thomas attempted to disarm Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber!
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He was trying to shoot me.”
Grant Thomas has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber passively!
2ndLt Sarah ‘Grumpy’ Steele [MedSci (Doc)] says, “New a NEW RIGHT LEG HAD TO USE ONE SEND ON NEXT CYCLE PLEASE”
Grant Thomas has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber aggressively!
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “I got the rest of the eggs”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “You could hear his gun being empty man”
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “Northeast corner.”
PFC Ray Robinson [Engi (OT)] says, “Oh CO is dead.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “I dont know what you want me to say”

Grant Thomas holds Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber by the neck and starts choking them!
Sgt Alexander Wolff(as Alexander Wolff) says, “Let’s do it”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “Holy fuck”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Yeah, he started loading it.”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “You fuck”
Grant Thomas has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber passively!
Grant Thomas has grabbed Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber aggressively!
Grant Thomas starts loading Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber onto their back.

1stLt Saffi ‘Dog’ Adama [MedSci (CMO)] says, “Aye”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “I’ll get the body to a doc”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Check his gun.”
Grant Thomas loads Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber onto their back.
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Its loaded.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Thanks”
You are buckled in to the passenger seat by Grant Thomas.
Sgt Alexander Wolff [Command (Alpha SL)] asks, “We got to arm the nuke?”
Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty points to the cockpit
Grant Thomas talks into the marine military police radio headset
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Alright”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “Open it”

2ndLt Sarah ‘Grumpy’ Steele [MedSci (Doc)] says, “Ooops sorry for yelling”
Sgt Alexander Wolff [Command (Alpha SL)] asks, “Good, rather?”
Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty has grabbed Derrick Warner passively!
Sgt Mitchell Shephard [Command (DCC)] says, “Im going to go cryo”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “I am going to report you to HC.”
ARES v3.2 [Command] states, “TECH REPORT: 7 points available (+8).”
ARES v3.2 [Intel] states, “TECH REPORT: 7 points available (+8).”
Grant Thomas talks into the marine military police radio headset
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Well the PO just executed his DCC”
LCpl Andrew ‘Finn’ Walker [Command (Charlie aSL)] says, “One prae down.”
Grant Thomas buckles in!
2ndLt Sarah ‘Grumpy’ Steele [MedSci (Doc)] says, “Alos a blood vendor too please”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] asks, “Front still up?”
1stLt Saffi ‘Dog’ Adama [MedSci (CMO)] says, “All good”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Check his gun.”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “No”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] asks, “Or did you all die?”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “I dont know”
Grant Thomas unbuckled !
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “It’s on the ground.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He loaded his gun.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “I had to shoot.”
Grant Thomas has thrown the M37A2 pump shotgun.
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Empty”

Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Sorry to break it to you”
Grant Thomas buckles in!
ALMAYER SPECIAL ASSETS AUTHORIZED

Additional troops are being taken out of cryo.
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “So anyway, 7 eggs in total”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “Good haul! Feels good.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “A nice haul.”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “Thank god”
1stLt Kara Bisenti [MP (CMP)] asks, “Are they holding on the ground?”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Well, I heard it being loaded.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Anyway.”
Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty buckles in!

Grant Thomas talks into the marine military police radio headset
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “I dont know”
Sgt Grant Thomas [MP (MP)] says, “I dont know”
Sgt Alexander Wolff [Alpha (SL)] says, “We’re arming the nuke now”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “We’re by the original hive”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “One warrior one prae”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “Thank god”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “In sight”
1stLt Kara Bisenti [Command (CMP)] asks, “Is the Alamo holding?”
PFC Kyle Sabitix [Engi (OT)] says, “Ray.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber asks, “Are you going to launch the ship yourself?”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Nope”
LCpl Adam ‘Coil’ Burns [Charlie (Spc)] says, “NEED MEDIC TO ME”
PFC Ray Robinson [Engi (OT)] asks, “Yea?”

2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber asks, “So who’s going to launch?”
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “We can wait fer the copilot”
Grant Thomas peers through the the binoculars.
Grant Thomas looks up from the binoculars.
ARES v3.2 Nuclear Tracker

ALERT.

NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DECRYPTION STARTED.

DECRYPTION IN 600 SECONDS.
PFC Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty says, “I’ll go check the status”
Colin ‘Lad’ Moriarty unbuckled !
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Command can launch whenever they feel like it.”
PFC Ray Robinson [JTAC (OT)] says, “Lazing.”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] says, “That warrior took my damn foot”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] asks, “SL can you laze for a rapell?”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He’s an idiot who cannot even load his gun.”

1stLt Kara Bisenti [MP (CMP)] asks, “Can you get a medic for the crew chief?”
PFC Ray Robinson [Engi (OT)] says, “399, 59.”
LCpl Adam ‘Coil’ Burns [Charlie (Spc)] says, “QUEEN”
Capt Nathaniel ‘Nat’ Bennet [Alpha (XO)] says, “One of the OT’s is lazing”
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] asks, “How are the towers?”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “Nice”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber asks, “Anyway, arent you going to arrest him for attempted murder?”
PFC Ray Robinson [Engi (OT)] says, “Queen.”
Sgt Alexander Wolff [Alpha (SL)] says, “Only works on flares I think”
PFC Ray Robinson [Engi (OT)] says, “Fire.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He clearly tried to shoot me.”
Capt Nathaniel ‘Nat’ Bennet [Alpha (XO)] says, “Nevermind”
Grant Thomas talks into the marine military police radio headset
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “Command can you cycle the Alamo whenever? the PO decided to execute his DCC.”
Sgt Grant Thomas [Command (MP)] says, “Command can you cycle the Alamo whenever? the PO decided to execute his DCC.”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] says, “Guess you guys better get back here”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “399, 59.”"

LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “Queen”
2ndLt Anna Malenkov [Command (CE)] says, “Secure and both active.”
LCpl Andrew ‘Finn’ Walker [Charlie (aSL)] says, “Location.”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Alpha (ComTech)] says, “Fire”
Capt Nathaniel ‘Nat’ Bennet [Alpha (XO)] says, “It works for red laser”
LCpl Adam ‘Coil’ Burns [Charlie (Spc)] says, “FUCKING”
PFC Kyle Sabitix [Engi (OT)] says, “Dailing.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “I didn’t execute him.”
1stLt Mark Stone [Command (ASO)] says, “He did what”
LCpl Andrew ‘Finn’ Walker [Charlie (aSL)] says, “WHERE.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He tried to shoot me several times.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “You shot him twice man.”
PFC Kyle Sabitix [Engi (OT)] says, “Under ground.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “His gun was empty.”

Oliver [Command (Syn)] asks, “Do we have a pilot to rappel?”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “The evidence and intentions kinda stack against you here.”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “Yeah, so? He tried to shoot me.”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Engi (Alpha ComTech)] asks, “You got funny shells?”
LCpl Jethro Sanchez [Engi (Alpha ComTech)] says, “I can get coords too”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] asks, “Command, what’s the plan here?”
2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “He grabbed his gun first.”
LCpl Adam ‘Coil’ Burns [Charlie (Spc)] says, “WEST BOTANY”
Capt Nathaniel ‘Nat’ Bennet [Charlie (XO)] says, “Walker is currently in engineering”

2ndLt Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber says, “And tried to shoot me.”
1stLt Kara Bisenti [Command (CMP)] says, “No. We’ve got one pilot, and he’s in handcuffs on the planet because he shot his crew chief.”
PFC Bridget Macready [Delta (RFN)] asks, “New tacmap?”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “Hold comms”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “His gun was empty man”
2ndLt Michael ‘Hawk’ Carlson [Command (Intel aSL)] says, “I witnessed it.”
PFC Paul Stanford [Delta (RFN)] says, “Im heading to lz2”
PFC Kyle Sabitix [Engi (OT)] says, “Cant hit you guys are under ground.”
Sgt Grant Thomas says, “You could hear it i dont know what you want me to say.”

[beni238]

Hello, Grant Thomas here, i find it quite frustrating that you have to lie in your report against me, mainly this whole thing about the “i dont know the differance between empty gun click and shotgun loading” when you, youself used a shotgun to kill your DCC meaning that, you use shotguns yourself. (and as somone that joined back in 2019 you should have it memorized at this point)

you also said that " you dont understand how PB works " but i do.
(i also think his shotgun was unloaded mainly because he didnt want to stab you, wich does more damage, as such he just bashed you instead.)

A PB works by being on harm intent with a gun, he bashed you with it, because, drumroll, it wasnt on harm intent, meaning he didnt try to PB, if he was you would hear click click, i dont have much else to add its pretty plain what happend but when you kill somone like this, the self defence claim is totaly void, you had the ability to leave the cockpit, the DCC tried after you shot him, but you shot him again, you could also at any point, have asked me to literaly escort him out.

this was your own fault.

[ihatethisengine]

@beni238

Hello, Grant Thomas here, i find it quite frustrating that you have to lie in your report against me, mainly this whole thing about the “i dont know the differance between empty gun click and shotgun loading” when you, youself used a shotgun to kill your DCC meaning that, you use shotguns yourself. (and as somone that joined back in 2019 you should have it memorized at this point)

All I am saying that the sound of clicking and loading a shell into shotgun are quite similar and it’s possible to be confused in a heated situation like this, which I did. I had no reason to lie about me being sure that he loaded his gun neither then nor now. More than that, it doesn’t really matter, he could have just forgot to chamber the shell and it would take him half a second to chamber a shell and shoot me eventually. I carry shotgun only when I play PO and I don’t use it very often. I am not very good at sprite clicking so since 2019 I mainly used M41A and M39.

@beni238

you also said that " you dont understand how PB works " but i do.
(i also think his shotgun was unloaded mainly because he didnt want to stab you, wich does more damage, as such he just bashed you instead.)

So you’re claiming he drew his gun not to shoot me, but to use it as a melee weapon instead? This is a bold claim and a pure speculation on your part, since even the DCC never claimed that he didn’t try to shoot me, and you made no attempt to interrogate him. He clearly tried to shoot me, hence the clicking sounds we both referred to. More than that, you can see from the logs, after the first shot put him in paincrit I buckled myself in the pilot chair (I thought he would stop trying to shoot me), while he was in the co-pilot chair. When he came back to consciousness, he continued trying to shoot me, while I wasn’t even adjacent to him, so I had to shoot him second time, which killed him. So your attempt to picture a gun as a melee weapon is a pure speculation that has nothing to do with the situation. He clearly didn’t intend to use his gun as a melee weapon, as he kept trying to shoot me when I wasn’t adjacent.

@beni238

A PB works by being on harm intent with a gun, he bashed you with it, because, drumroll, it wasnt on harm intent, meaning he didnt try to PB, if he was you would hear click click

This might be true, but it doesn’t change anything, as he not only bashed me, but was also trying to shoot me both when I was and wasn’t adjacent. We both heard clicking sounds from his attempts to shoot the gun. The fact his gun wasn’t loaded and that he failed to use PB correctly only speaks of his unexpirience with the game (as he confirmed to me prior the situation in LOOC), but not in any way rules out his malicious intent to shoot me with a gun. He tried to shoot me several times, but failed, because he forgot to load his gun. It is an attempted murder by ML. Recently we had another situation, when a marine were shooting his CO with M2C, while the CO was behind a bullet-proof window. Marine couldn’t harm the CO in any way (and unlike our situation, probably didn’t even have intent to do so), but it was ruled as an attempt on the CO’s life and consequential BE was ruled as justified. Lizardima - Player Report: Immelmann A.W. Sidewinder, didn't read the rules lol

@beni238

the DCC tried after you shot him, but you shot him again, you could also at any point, have asked me to literaly escort him out.

The DCC never tried to leave cockpit. He kept trying to shoot me when he came back to consciousness. I couldn’t leave the cockpit either, as I would have to put myself in additional danger, waiting for the door to open while being adjacent to a man with a shotgun, who is actively trying to shoot me. More than that, this is a cockpit of a dropship with a freaking nuke onboard. I am not forfeiting my ship to a psycho who is trying to kill me. As for asking you to escort him out, frankly, I didn’t even notice you, as you made no attempt to interfere until the whole situation was over. And since I was in active danger, waiting for you to interfere would again, put me in additional danger. He could figure to pump his shotgun at any moment, I couldn’t just wait for it.

I want to additionally point out that I did make some attempts to disengage. After my first shot I moved away and buckled myself to the pilot chair, and I only made the second shot after the DCC continued his attempts to shoot me (I am not sure if admin logs can show “clicking” but you can see it from my logs too: First shot caused a fracture, second shot caused death, between the shots you can see me buckling). The MP ruled it as “execution” anyway, despite me clearly not shooting to kill (otherwise I’d just shoot the DCC two times consequently until the deathgasp message appearance). The MP made no attempts to interrogate the DCC and made his judgement based only on his own speculations and in completely bad faith, not to mention his failure to understand the self-defense section in ML.

[beni238]

All I am saying that the sound of clicking and loading a shell into shotgun are quite similar and it’s possible to be confused in a heated situation like this, which I did.

the last lines in my first reply.

So you’re claiming he drew his gun not to shoot me, but to use it as a melee weapon instead?

Yes that is what im claiming, he from what i know never told you he tried to PB you, it goes both ways.
it becomes easier to belive when you realize he only went click click to prove that his gun was empty, speculation, so you wouldnt shoot him, no?

This might be true, but it doesn’t change anything, as he not only bashed me, but was also trying to shoot me both when I was and wasn’t adjacent.

As above.
(The report is irrelevant there was stated intent.)

The DCC never tried to leave cockpit. He kept trying to shoot me when he came back to consciousness.
I want to additionally point out that I did make some attempts to disengage.

i still feel just the same as i was when i said it last, he went click with his gun, to prove it be empty, so you wouldnt shoot him, and sitting next to somone who you belive tried to shoot you with a gun after you shot them, is in no way ‘disengaging’ its moreso waiting for him to actually shoot you so that you shooting him would be somehow justified.

other than the quote replies, i want to paint a picture before i stop replying to what i feel is a waste of time.
If i or anyone came up to you, and shoved you, wack you with a gun and go click with it, are you going to shoot them for ‘attempted murder’, i would hope no.
what if i think they reloaded their gun just to shoot me, but confused it entirely with another click vs actual reloading, maybe, mishearing something makes it automaticaly fall on you.
(your round wasnt affected whatsoever because the round ended before i could even start your timer)
This was your own fault.

(sorry if i seem angry in this, im currently sick and just dont want to deal with this videogame argument)

[ihatethisengine]

@beni238

Yes that is what im claiming, he from what i know never told you he tried to PB you, it goes both ways.
it becomes easier to belive when you realize he only went click click to prove that his gun was empty, speculation, so you wouldnt shoot him, no?

@beni238

Yes that is what im claiming, he from what i know never told you he tried to PB you

This is just insane. You keep pulling these speculations out of nowhere. So he woke up from cryo, took shotgun, and then intentionally didn’t load it because he wanted to use it as melee weapon??? Because he expected to engage in a non-lethal brawl two hours later??? Why didn’t he take a machete or a bat if he wanted a melee weapon??? And then instead of punching me he took out his shotgun to bash me??? Trying to shoot, to prove the gun is empty??? If he wanted to show me he’s gun is empty and he has no intention to shoot, he could have just stated so, you can see he was talking, because I had no intention to escalate before he started shooting, and THEN CONTINUED after getting shot first time.

Again, you just made this whole argument up. It’s your job as an MP to investigate. You put me in perma, basically ending my round early, based on these insane speculations. You made no attempts to interrogate the DCC, to find out his real intentions. You can’t blame me for not doing so, I have no powers and I was cuffed by you.

@beni238

If i or anyone came up to you, and shoved you, wack you with a gun and go click with it, are you going to shoot them for ‘attempted murder’, i would hope no.

Just imagine silently pulling your shotgun on a police officer IRL (especially after some brawling), and then clicking to, as you say, prove it’s empty. And all it takes you to load the weapon is pumping the pump. Do you think the police officer would hesitate to double tap you? So even with your line of logic it makes no sense. My character wasn’t a police officer, but still I was a superior of the DCC who was actively disobeying me and then pulled a gun on me in a cockpit, while we had a nuke onboard.

@beni238

sitting next to somone who you belive tried to shoot you with a gun after you shot them, is in no way ‘disengaging’ its moreso waiting for him to actually shoot you so that you shooting him would be somehow justified.

Again, I am a DP landing in FOB with a nuke onboard, I cannot just leave. Maybe xenos were going to tunnel into FOB? I cannot just abandon my important job. I didn’t shoot second time before he continued to shooting me, this is what matters.

@beni238

what if i think they reloaded their gun just to shoot me, but confused it entirely with another click vs actual reloading, maybe, mishearing something makes it automaticaly fall on you.

Mishearing something is not my main line of defense. It’s just proving that I had no intention to execute the DCC, as you framed it, and I acted as I acted only because I was convinced my life was in danger, which is self-defence. You can remove mishearing from the formula entirely, and nothing will change: We had a heated situation, the DCC drew his gun and attempted to shoot me, but failed to do so because he forgot to load his weapon. This is already an attempt on my character’s life, whether the DCC tried to reload or not. I was under impression he did try to reload, but my self-defence is justified regardless. Unless you start to make up insane claims of using a gun as a melee weapon and clicking to prove it to be empty intentionally, but I already debunked this speculation.

MP has a power to remove a player from the round entirely, and this is a power you must use responsibly. If you just making up theories (that just don’t hold if you think longer than a second), to justify putting someone in perma brig, you should not be an MP. You could have just asked the DCC why did he pulled his gun, but you didn’t even try despite him sitting right next to you. But even then you have the ML that clearly states that gun vs gun is a proportional force. So you failed twice, you made no attempts to investigate and failed to read ML properly. And now you just coming up with pure speculations you cannot backup with evidence or testimony (because, again, you failed to gather any), to defend your case.

Now let’s really stop wasting each others time and wait for staff to make a decision.

UPD. Missed this somehow.

(your round wasnt affected whatsoever because the round ended before i could even start your timer)

I spent like at least 10 minutes cuffed in Alamo because we were waiting for the nuke, so my round was in fact affected.

[NessiePendragon]

Related logs will be pulled and posted in two hours!

[NessiePendragon]

Hey there! Please feel free contact me on Discord if there is anything missing or wrong!

Beni2381 - Grant Thomas - Military Police
Ihatethisengine2 - Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber - Pilot Officer
DCC

Pilot Officer starts the escalation by shoving the DCC on Alamo.

SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Get the fuck out. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: You. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Idiot. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) grabbed DCC/(Derrick Warner) in the Dropship Alamo
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) grabbed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) disarmed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) disarmed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) disarmed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) disarmed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) grabbed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) grabbed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) grabbed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) grabbed Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) disarmed DCC/(Derrick Warner)

DCC pulls out their shotgun and hits the Pilot Officer twice, after that, PO pulls out his shotgun and PBs the DCC once, after 15 seconds, PO shoots the DCC again and confirms the kill. DCC's LOOC messages.

ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) attacked Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) with M37A2 pump shotgun (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
ATTACK: DCC/(Derrick Warner) attacked Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) with M37A2 pump shotgun (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)

[2023-11-27 07:58:58.904] ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with a buckshot shell

[2023-11-27 07:59:13.466] (aprox. 15 seconds after) ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with an additional buckshot
ATTACK: Ihatethisengine2/(Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber) shot DCC/(Derrick Warner) with a buckshot shell
ATTACK: Derrick Warner has died to M37A2 pump shotgun at the Dropship Alamo from Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber

SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Wow. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Nice try. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
OOC: (LOCAL) Derrick Warner : oops
OOC: (LOCAL) Derrick Warner: wrong intent sorry

MP Grant Thomas arrests the PO for Murder, and they start to argue. For short, MP says the gun was empty therefore he can't charge the DCC for Attempted Murder. PO says, DCC tried to PB him and after making sure of his intentions, he killed the DCC, so it was a self-defense according to the PO.

SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Damn thats kinda rough (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He was trying to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Anyways you are under arrest for murder (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: It was self defence. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: You saw it. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He was trying to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: You could hear his gun being empty man (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: I dont know what you want me to say (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Yeah, he started loading it. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Check his gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Its loaded. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Thanks (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: Alright (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: I am going to report you to HC. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: Well the PO just executed his DCC (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Check his gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He loaded his gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: I had to shoot. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Empty (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Sorry to break it to you (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: A nice haul. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Well, I heard it being loaded. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Anyway. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: I dont know (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Are you going to launch the ship yourself? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Nope (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: So who’s going to launch? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Command can launch whenever they feel like it. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He’s an idiot who cannot even load his gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Anyway, arent you going to arrest him for attempted murder? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He clearly tried to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [Command]: Command can you cycle the Alamo whenever? the PO decided to execute his DCC. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: I didn’t execute him. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He tried to shoot me several times. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: You shot him twice man. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: His gun was empty. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: The evidence and intentions kinda stack against you here. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Yeah, so? He tried to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He grabbed his gun first. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: And tried to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: His gun was empty man (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: You could hear it i dont know what you want me to say. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: And the sound of empty gun is the same as the sound of loading the gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Isn’t it? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Nope. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: His intentions was to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Clearly. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [Command]: Sure. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: CMP, Derrick tried to shoot me and he’s not arrested for attempted murder. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: I was acting in self defense. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: I did along with charlie SL and intel SL. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: They both agree that he should be arrested for murder. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: He’s lying. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: Derrick tried to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: Thomas is lying to you. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [Command]: I dont know why. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: You can report it to provost too. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Yeah he shot his crew chief (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: We dont have time. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: For provost. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Yeah he tried to shot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: But forgot to load his gun. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: So I had to shot him back. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Yeah it was empty. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: It did, but I assumed he was trying to reload. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: And I couldn’t let him. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He did. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: He was bashed with the shotgun yeah (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He tried to PB. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Not shot (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He tried to PB me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: You know how to PB work? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: Mhm (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He pulled the trigger. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: You idiot. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: This is why gun clicked. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: So it’s allowed to try to shot your officer with a firearm? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Or what? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: You were never shot (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He did try to shoot me. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [1]: There is a huge differance (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: You cannot deny it. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: He tried but failed. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: This is why it’s called attempted murder. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Cannot believe you are a plat MP. (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Beni2381 [MP]: Thanks. (CKEY: Beni2381) (JOB: Military Police)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: Really? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)
SAY: Heinrich ‘Koba’ Kobber [1]: I am going in perma for self defence? (CKEY: Ihatethisengine2) (JOB: Pilot Officer)

[beni238]

This is just insane. You keep pulling these speculations out of nowhere.

Yes thats my point to prove here, the whole whacking somone with a ranged weapon happens alot, and is definetly not attempted murder, even after a brawl (disarming), this sometimes happens on accident and others not so much, im saying that you are also speculating that he tried to kill you / reload his gun, whatever, to kill you, without saying he was going to as he didnt have clear intentions to do so (empty gun) my argument here is outlandish for this reason alone, its all speculation, none of us really knows his intention untill he says it himself all you can do is assume, (partly my fault for not asking) and i admited it was speculation in my 2nd reply.

Just imagine silently pulling your shotgun on a police officer IRL (especially after some brawling), and then clicking to, as you say, prove it’s empty.

We are playing Colonial Marines, a game set in space 100+ (?) years in the future on a military vessel during a military operation, fighting aliens, with marines running around naked with shotguns, also most of the above reply, i also think a police officer would shoot sure, then move to cover or away, instead of sitting right next to the person that maybe just tried to kill them???

I didn’t shoot second time before he continued to shooting me, this is what matters.

Yes i do agree that the fact you shot twice does matter, the first shot in my own eyes were somewhat OK during the round this happend in (hence why i waited those 15 seconds) , what my main issue is, is that you sat there, expecting him to do something, you dont know what he will do, he could shoot you he could not, this is why you have the ability to open doors and move away from the area (just outside the cockpit outside of his direct line of fire / reach), this removes your claim of self defence, and makes it seem malicious that you shot him again.
everyone in the dropship that saw this was audibly disgusted by it too.

i can definetly agree that i failed to produce an investigation, 100% my fault i can only say sorry for this as its too late for anything else, at the time watching you shoot him the 2nd time and his shotgun being empty, seemed like more than enough evidence.

This meow your own meow.
(im no longer sick and actually feel like replying now : ) }
(also for refferance the DCC’s LOOC’s message was before this happend , not during.)

[Clairion]

Heya! I looked through the logs posted along with some additional logs and I think I’m ready to come to a conclusion.

Just to make it clear the way that Ihatethisengine acted in the cockpit IN THIS SITUATION does not seem to violate any OOC rules regarding Improper Escalation. That’s because they did really believe, and there was plenty of good reason for that belief to be there, that that DCC was trying to blast them.

Now to actually get to the report.
Grant witnessed the situation it seems, but concluded that self defence did not apply because the DCC didnt actually shoot the PO. This is an entirely wrong interpretation of Marine Law.
Someone punching you in the face with their GUN THAT COULD BE LOADED and pulling the trigger multiple times (that is what the clicking sound is) should very much be considered someone trying to shoot someone.
I can’t believe that I have to say this but if someone is attacking you with a firearm and pulling the trigger it is a completely reasonable response to shoot them. Both in our escalation rules and in the spirit of Self Defence as described in marine law.

That clears up if the PO should even have been charged with murder (He shouldnt have been as it was clearly self defence) but I do also want to get into how Grant handled the situation as an MP.
I am going to be brutally honest here, and probably very rude. But I really do not understand some of the things said and decisions made there.

I dont get why you arrested the PO straight away but didnt make any attempt to gather testimony by questioning people nearby, or at the very least the other party (DCC in this case). You could have at least sent another MP to do that. And it would probably have been best if you also cuffed the DCC and had a medic revive them INSIDE the dropship so you can take them both back to the Almayer.

I also find is strange that, even if you thought the DCC wasnt trying to shoot the PO, you didnt at least arrest the DCC for Assault with a deadly weapon. For beating someone over the head with a shotgun. (Maybe if the shotgun didnt have a bayonet along with being unloaded then you could argue that its not a deadly weapon, but that is a stretch and would still just lower it to assault.)

I also dont get why, when asked by the CMP if you witnessed the shooting, you say that both the Charlie SL and IO agree with you about this being a murder when they didnt say anything like that.
The closest thing that comes to that is the IO saying “… are you serious?” “In front of the MPs?” after the shooting and the charlie SL saying “What the fuck” “Thats wild” in reference to the shooting and afterwards saying “Nah he’s chill” when the PO claims that the DCC was trying to shoot him.
I am honestly having a hard time figuring out if you just totally misunderstood what they were saying or if you are trying to maliciously misrepresent what was said there.


I could probably ramble on longer but the point is: This is far below any sort of expected standard of a MP and how they should be acting in that role.
This report is getting approved. I am going to give @beni238 the benefit of the doubt since this is your only note for ML issues in a while. I’m going to assume there is any malicious compliance here.
So I’ll be giving you a note for Rule 11: ML as MP. Please take the stuff I said in this report to heart and try to investigate situations like this better.