Let's ramble about Fear RP.

General Discussion
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FEAR RP WHAT IS IT?

Now you likely heard of the term Fear RP, But what does it really mean? In simple terms Fear RP refers to the hesitation and unwillingness to put your character in harms way. This come in many ways, perhaps you are unwilling to be the point man taking the lead. Or maybe you are unwilling to leave Fob with out a buddy. Or even the epitome of fear RP running away from the queens stomps.

It truly is just fear, albeit not true Roleplay. The fear is not coming from a place of immersion into your character but the fear of being round ended or suffering from severe injuries that require heading top side or to FOB to get mended.

WHY DOES THIS MATTER?

In truth it wouldn’t matter that much if the Fear RP is spread evenly. But simple fact is different players have different levels of Fear RP, so there is always going to be some level of a mix bag. This may not seem to be a issue at first thought, but in all due frankness it is a big one.

Let say you have squad of 5. Now split the levels of Fear RP 1 to 5, meaning you have one with little fear and 4 with heavy fear. What happens when that one fearless lad runs off into the darkness to secure the kill past a dark 1 tile choke?

If they get the kill and there is no other xenos around. Then all is well, but if that xeno they had run down has real chops or has backup things start to get dicey. This one fearless marine is but one man and taking in account the stun base gameplay the xeno are based around… Lets just say one marine while able to kills xenos on their own its not the base line.

Now this is where the issue of Fear RP come into play. If the fearless one doesn’t have their comrades follow in after them they will likely die or worse yet get capped. But the rest of his squad are filled with Fear RP and instead of following right after him they hesitate, after all they don’t want to go into that one tile choke and die!

This in the end result one dead man and 4 marines readily stalled out. As the time tics by one of your comrades finally risks it and dives in to at least get your body out before it perms. issue is the rest of the squad fail to rush in to help them when they themselves get grabbed. In the end the squad is either is whittled down and wiped or is routed leaving a few bodies behind.

WHY WOULD BEING FEARFUL BE GOOD THEN?

Yes i did say that the issue lays in the different levels of fear RP and the hypothetical i gave seemed to make it out being aggression and fearless is good. But frankly… that fearless marine aggression was then one to start the whole debacle in the first place. They rushed into the dark through a tight choke! of course the rest of their squad doesn’t want to go into that death trap!

Had that marine been just as Fearful of that choke and didn’t go into it then matter would be a non issue. Yes you may have lost a likely kill, but at least the squad had not been forced into bad fight. Not to get all philosophical but fear exists for a reason.

Now is good per say? Not truly, after all if the xenos keep getting out at the skin of there teeth because the marines filled to the brim with fear RP and refuse to chase. Then xenos are just going to slowly whittle you down until you no longer can fight ether due to stacking wounds or lack of ammo.

But at the very least you are not going to willing walk into a death trap!

WHATS IS BETTER EVEN FEAR OR HYPER AGGRESSION?

Generally speaking Hyper aggression is going to be better over all. But it does have pit falls itself. For one thing some times it better to take your time to ether go around a choke or blast it open with CAS, Morter or a OB. You see if the xenos are smart they can trick a hyper aggressive squad into running face first into a trap leading to squad getting wiped Again like said there is a reason fear is a thing.

Then there is the issue of rapidly accruing attritional damage but due to the Hyper aggression of the squad they keep pushing deeping into the xeno line… yes they xenos are on the back foot but fact is xenos are better at healing up. So at some point if they fail to get enough kills the marines are going run out of steam at some point and keel over on one good xeno counter push.

THEN WHATS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?

I like to ramble what can i say! But no really the matter of fear RP is rather big issue and is the most likely is the cause for many of the Marines lost rounds. If one wants to fix the matter they got to understand it.

HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT MITIGATING THE ISSUES WITH FEAR RP OR THE LACK OFF?

Frankly? Good squad leaders! If you got charismatic lead that has the devotion of their squad. they will be able to push the more fearful of the squad onwards into the breach or rein in the more fearless of the squad from running off on their own.

Fear RP is in large part born from a lack of trust and or confidence in your comrades! Ether they think they are just going to be left behind to perm after the squad is routed or if they push out into the xeno line and get grabbed by a warrior their comrades aren’t going to rush to save them.

So even if lack trust in rest of the squad at least when you got a good SL you know they will whip the rest into acting. Now the other way one can mitigating the issues is by RP! Yes the simple truth is if you build up a rapport with the rest of your squad. You will be much more willing to go into harms way to help them and you yourself will feel they will be much more willing to help YOU!

morale of the story?

Do more RP and make buddys and this issue will go away!

Addendum: Asymmetrical gameplay and its effects on xenos.

Now you may have noted that didn’t talk about Fear RP in xenos in the original post you can thank the siren call of sleep for that. anyhow ONTO THE MEAT AND POTATOES!

DO XENOS HAVE FEAR RP?

Simple answer is yes… but its not comparable to the levels seen in the marines. Xeno do in fact get hit with Fear RP but it happens much less often and doesn’t necessarily manifest in the same way as it does with marines.

WHY IS XENO FEAR RP DIFFERENT?

Its different because of the nature of the asymmetrical gameplay that CM has. First off the xenos are starting as the dug in defenders meaning they have a home base advantage. Secondly xenos suffer from no issues of awareness. They have full night vision and thermal vision that allows them to see marines even past walls, where as only a few of the marines come anywhere close to what the xenos have.

A large part of what can cause Fear RP is the unknown, yes i know shocking! But this means that xenos have a substantial advantage when it comes to situational awareness, meaning they are able to weight their options on how to attack with no reservations.

Combine this with the understanding that marines lack such awareness… Xenos also know that the marines are going to have hard time running them down if they can just but only get back to the darkness.

WHAT KIND OF FEAR RP CAN YOU SEE IN XENO?

First off waiting until full health before rejoining the xeno push. A great many of times you frankly flat out don’t need to be topped off to join in the assault and it would likely just be better for you to join in even if you are missing a bit of health. After all a good xeno push breaks the marines morale causing them to rout not necessarily killing them all.

And if you are a Ravager, even if you standing in the back and not doing much. Just having one more T3 out in view of the marines can do a number on their morale. Again like i said you don’t even necessarily need to get in to the fray your self just standing there like a scarecrow can help.

Secondly not pushing out along side the queen when she is screeching. Yes it rather spooky rushing into the mass of marines off weeds into the blinding light of their shoulder lamps. But as long as the queen had not picked a bad spot all will be find as long as you don’t get greedy and hive joins on mass.

Addendum: Fear of the unknown

One thing that is near constant is the fear of the unknown and CM is no different! Players fear the darkness because they know not of what lurks within. it could just be nothing or it could be a Lurker laying in wait.

WHY IS THIS A ISSUE?

If there is reason to fear then fear shall come about! issue is most the time its nothing more then what you alrighty know. Badly wound a lurk and it slinks back into the darkness? you can run it down but the fact it may have backup waiting around a corner stops you.

This is rather not good, that lurker is just going to heal up and jump you at a later date. Yes there could be other xenos waiting to jump you after you chase but if are not Dead from a lurker gang dog piling you… chances are its just the one lurker.

Largely if there is a unknown humans are going to have greater caution!

SO HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE UNKNOWN?

Simple, make the unknown the known. Pack Flares and light up the darkness as you go or take a motion detector and hook it on your belt so you can see the pings or lack there off. Do anything and every thing to increase YOUR and others situational awareness!

If you are comtech many of the Maps have floodlights find and fix the APC where the switch is and flip it letting the colony be bathed in artificial light! Lets say you are MT heading down to help fob, go off to the back maintenance rooms and grab the emergency flood lights and set them up in and around the fob.

if you are really skittish about doors then stand back and blast them open with your firearms, then toss a flare in! some may say its waste of ammo but hay at least you are not about to get grab by a warrior.

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You charge with me or you are a coward. It is as simple as that.

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I didn’t read this all I saw was fear RP +1

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I push you don’t push you are now classified as Fear RP and must live with that shame until I forget.

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God forbid people roleplay.

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As much as I hate to admit it, it’s just instinctual to run back to cades once I hear those queen stomps. Runner drag PTSD.

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I’ve said this ingame several times but this is a good place to reiterate it:
I belive FearRP has a large basis in the stun-based gameplay the xeno faction has increasingly morphed into over the past two or more years. You mentioned this a bit yourself, which is more than most people do when railing against fearRP. When current game mechanics make it increasingly easy to be removed from the round by an enemy who presses two buttons (pounce then disarm, for the easiest example) and as a marine your only realistic option is to either have teammates nearby who know how to actually counter this (by shaking up teammates, shooting be damned), OR the classic “well you should have had a shotgun and landed a PB before you were clicked horizontal”, is it really any surprise that marines are not incentivised to push as hard as they ought to? My thoughts on stun gameplay are well enough known, but I think people don’t go any further in thinking about the effect of stun gameplay besides whether or not captures are achieved. This is unfortunate considering there are massive trickle-down effects to it in the form of things such as the fearRP being discussed here. The reason I think stun gameplay is a big component to fearRP is because you can very easily see which castes marines WILL fearRP versus the ones they WON’T. When a warrior camps a corner without any other support I will very often observe it as being enough to keep whole teams at bay lest they get dragged to Brazil or start a casualty conga line. When a boiler is holding a choke with only a couple of drones or spitters as support marines rarely hang back unless there’s a big fuck off glob coming their way to cut off their advance.
Really, I’m just ranting too. I do really wish more players considered this element of the conversation though.

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Good point. I am mostly kidding. If you RP going full Hudson in your Fear RP. I will fully support it.

I despise this. Hope that clears things up. Also, @Catzonwheelz. Fantastic post. We will have a rich discussion.

Completely agree man. Commit to the bit. Also congratulations on obtaining Mod.

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Honestly, I’ve never liked how the term fear RP is used for people just being generally cautious. Frankly, I don’t even think its roleplay-oriented mindset that pushes people to play like that, even the most LRP self insert shitters can play cautiously and have ‘fear RP’.

Frankly, I think its something unavoidable. Sure you could unga ball (god I hate that term) your way into the fray and play super aggressively, but frankly its a very 50/50 concept. You’re either gonna loose the entire squad in one charge or win the round in one go. Its a lot more tactically sound to move extremely slow, stay behind the cover of cades, secure flanks and slowly push up on the xenomorphs while denying caps.

Now, what we need is people ACTUALLY fear RPing, more dialogue and character to what’s a very RP lacking groundside experience. People do RP, but only when pushed to. Be the change you wanna see yadda yadda.

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The downlow on this is that it is whenever a player makes an observation where they think the most optimal solution to a problem is to “push” in that instance.

Sometimes, it is correct, and pushing would result in a favourable outcome (the queen dies) in others, the idea is misinformed and would result in a complete wipe. It’s a subjective thing, but it is often used by people who suicide rush at xenos with no braincells and then they blame their loss on this idea that if marines just had pushed and suicided into a terrible choke with them and joined in a group wipe that things would all be so much better, and the only reason players don’t is “fear”.

The “RP” aspect is actually insulting to RP players, it comes from tryhard sweats who make fun of people who RP in general, because they could have just said ‘fear’ but fear RP seems to roll off the tongue as more funny because the hidden meaning here is that “people who RP are funny”.

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Same, if we are going to be over come by fear. we may as well do some real Roleplay into it. at least a few more emotes being used. That being said i get why lads don’t actually do RP when they are ‘fear RPing’ as most the time it happens its during high strung battle where have to stay on your toes.

Eh, not really. well maybe for some lads but fact is mechanically speaking their is little reason to be so fearful. we got UA sanctioned necromancy in the form of defibs, ready use Robot limbs, super drugs than can get you back into the fight is but few minutes.

Hence why its called fear ‘RP’ from a outside perspective and meta view being aggressive is better. so the only reason people cower is because they are roleplaying. That kind of being the joke.

Edit: to clarify i am not saying RP in of its self is the joke but that from a meta POV such fear is sub-optimal, so therefore the reason they are so fearful is because they are just RPing.

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Quite it very much is part of why fear RP is a thing. After all like you said they can just two tap you and there is vary little you can do about it other then Point blanking buckshot. Issue is that if we take away the stun based game play we are going to need to turn xenos into bullet sponges more then already are.

what’s more if take a look at rounds where the marines steamroll the xenos one of the things is a level of hyper aggression mixed with high levels of cohesion. So Clearly even there is only so much stuns can do against the horde.

Really i think lads just need to get over the hump of getting rounded ended its not the end of the world.

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Fear RP is either broken morale, or loss of initiative.

IRL, these are two key aims you have to apply to the opposing force. Most military action isn’t about annihilating your enemy, is it aimed at breaking their morale (routing) or getting them on the defensive (loss of initiative). So one side will always suffer what is effectively Fear RP.

This is what can make a flank very effective even if it doesn’t cause that many casualties. It disrupts the plan. This is also why XO’s who are constantly giving conflicting or changing orders, rather than saying what is happening can contribute to a loss of initiative - or even cause their unit to route.

Fear RP is entirely the responsibility of commanders (SLs, XOs). Soldiers do not know what is happening and the fog of war will contribute to loss of morale and a lack of trust in what is happening. This is what causes units to rout in real life. Most unit annihilation IRL happens during routs or loss of initiative as well.

Loss of morale is inexcusable, if this happens as a leader you need to stop being a leader. You just aren’t suited for leadership.

Loss of initiative can happen to even the best leaders. This means the force is no longer able to choose when and how to engage the enemy, but is instead forced to respond to the enemy’s actions. It is the goal of every combat leader to force their enemy to lose the initiative, and start dictating the terms of your engagements. This can happen due to various factors, including surprise attacks, tactical blunders, or a failure to maintain momentum.

This is where commanders have to adapt. That means using their actual order of battle not the one they wished they had. If you don’t have stacks of unga marines, don’t lay your plans out thinking of you should have stacks of unga marines and everyone should step up. Instead, find out what order of battle you actually have. Ask the SLs, as your team. What forces do you have and what plans can you lay with that?

Commanders, especially XOs and SOs, should be telling the marines what they see not barking constantly changing orders.

This has been a doctrine since the late 1999’s IRL, sometimes termed “The Strategic Corporal”

The remaining vestiges of the “zero defects mentality” must be exchanged for an environment in which all marines are afforded the “freedom to fail” and, with it, the opportunity to succeed

If you are a commander who doesn’t take responsibility for Fear RP. You are either an idiot, or a coward. Possibly both. You are not fit to lead soldiers.

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Yeah, good to hear we’re on the same page with that! And thanks!

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Or that they want to win and they are averse to losing, and dying contributes to losing and being alive contributes to winning in most cases, except where the suicide push would be a better option. That example being a marine going into crit or even dying is perfectly acceptable if the result of the added damage in that push is a higher value target being eliminated.

RP in this case, has nothing to do with it. “Players” are afraid of losing.

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Oh absolutely Fear RP is largely a issue of poor morale. But its issue is that even at full strength and in mass the marines can be over come by Fear and stall out even at first contact. Mind you many times first contact on most maps start on poor footing for the xenos… many soft walls and few chokes.

Now the question is…is this just this set of players just very skittish or has morale been broken even before the landing? Than again got to take in account the nature of back to back rounds and the knock on effects of morale issues bleeding into the next.

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even at full strength and in mass the marines can be over come by Fear and stall out even at first contact

Poor morale is an inexcusable failure of leadership. Loss of initiative can happen to the best commander with superior forces.

I sort of outlined it in my earlier reply, but in Infantry Officer training - a massive amount of time is devoted to learning to force an opposing force to lose the initiative.

So yes, absolutely - “fear RP” from a loss of initiative can and does affect superior forces with good commanders. This is demonstrated by a really effective flank, whether marines or xeno. It breaks the initiative and can cause a rout of even a superior force.

I play xeno quite a lot as well and “fear RP” for Xeno is absolutely and consistently a thing. Morale is less of an issue, but loss of initiative can be cripping for xenos. You can be an effective queen without being a great leader, simply by being really good. A really good CO initiated flank is a textbook example of how xenos can end up in “fear RP” when their initiative gets broken.

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well yes, now mind you many not be out right addressing that given example in full and if you are not… do correct me.

But the point i was making that the ‘Fear RP’ takes hold even in situations where morale shouldn’t be broken at this point. You are on relatively advantageous ground where there is not a great deal needed to clear ground. You have yet to take losses. you have yet to accrue damage. you have yet to expend ammo.

Command has yet to fuck up, nether has the squad leads. You have simple come in contact with the xenos front line and still stalled out due to ‘Fear RP’. Here is the thing the loss of initiative can lead to ‘Fear RP’ but in this given situation its the ‘Fear RP’ is what is CAUSEING the loss of initiative.

while i will say that morale has a massive effect on the eponymous Fear RP, its clearly not the only reason it happens.

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Absolutely agree. They can happen independantly. Fear RP is often a “loss of initiative” (especially for xeno, where morale is not a significant factor), which can happen to forces will excellent morale and incredible commanders. I might not have done a great job of separating the two in my posts above. Absolutely 100% a loss of initiative can affect any force.

That is why it is so important for commanders to be aware of (and disseminate) the rhythm of operations (or “operational tempo”). Sometimes, your enemy is just better - or lucky - and they seize the initiative.

It is the aim of every combat leader to figure out how to achieve the initiative.

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CM players cover a wide spectrum, a hefty chunk are kids, tired adults and people who dont really give a shit. I think in CM, much of the time fearRP really cant be solved by morale boosting in-game. A solid chunk of marines are genuinely useless combat-wise and are liabilities. A relatively small fraction of players end up having the majority of round impact on both sides, and it’s just a reality given the game effectively smashes every possible skill level smashed into one lobby- As opposed to say, a real-life military where everyone is at roughly the same standard (and has a lot of incentive to be serious, since life isnt a video game).

Whilst good leadership has amazing power that tips the scales in a big way, fearRP is something that can be mitigated, but never ever neutralised. At least, that’s my two cents.

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