But pounce is on cooldown, which till it finishes, lurker is no longer able to solo cap you.
Problem solved.
Yes, I mentioned it.
If as a solo marine you forced lurker to disenage and run away without any permanent injury, you can consider yourself a big winner in such situation.
It is not hard if said marine is slow, or moves in predictable manner. This is why you should have MD on you, if it starts pinging, either you run to the nearest marines ASAP, or you start evasive maneuvers.
That is your chance to counterattack. MD gives you an early warning, now you have to “pass a skill check” and avoid the pounce.
And that exhaust the topic of “marine have no chance to fight back against lurker” I am pretty sure.
Only Queen’s Screech is truly unavoidable, only this has no “skill check”. Every single other xeno to marine interaction leaves atleast a tiny room for a marine to do something.
Your mistake is perceiving a landed pounce as a start of a combat, when it is actually almost the very end.
Riot shield, not moving in a straight line, GL spec armor, MD, light armor and such (not even mentioning other marines) is your counterplay against xenos.
It is true that odds are against you as a marine, but that is intended for balance reasons. At the time of first drop marines outnumber xenos around 3:1, so xenos must be better individually than a lone marine.
No, I don’t wanna, because I can see that they exist for a reason and are actually pretty balanced. Queen is slow, there are never more than one, it is a T4, so of course it can have screech and neuro. Solo Screech is a dick and dishonourable as fuck, though, it is better to be knifed to death as a Queen than solo screech a PFC, but whatever.
Lurker can do way worse things to a lone marine than cap it. Atleast if you are capped, you get to play the game faster via bypassing larvae queue. Unlike if you just got killed in a remote corner of a map all alone, which means marines are unlikely to recover you and even if they do, you got two fractures if not just outright cut feet, or hand, which means you will spend a lot of time in dropship and then medbay.
Lone marines should get dunked by combat T2’s and T3’s. They even should be possible to easly cap said marine for combat T2’s and T3’s.
You can’t expect me to carry an MD every round I play aswell as spamming my keys every single time I move through the back lines.
But the thing is a fully armed and healed marine who just deployed gets pounced and instantly tackled. I understand it’s a T2 and ambush is its advantage but unable to do anything at all?
Sure you could dodge all you want but when it lands it’s over. Your round is over no one is going to recover your ass cause you just got instantly tackled without being able to land a singular hit.
Sure you could say it takes skill but all you do is click and then instantly run into the dark if you miss . By the time a marine with an smg reacts there will be a 5 tile difference in range and I’ll doubt a marine will run after you unless he’s prepared to fight lurkers with an MD as you say. Even then all it takes is about 3 slashes or even less to slow him down or give a fracture. Paired up with the lurkers slowdown ability which lasts long enough for the second pounce to
This shouldn’t even be a significant change to lurker gameplay you still have your deadly combo that has a 95% chance to give marines fracture, the only thing that’ll happen is the marine now has a chance to fight back and call for help. Even then if there’s 2 lurkers the success of capturing a marine is almost 100% guaranteed. Aswell as the fact that you could have your buddy playable huggers to tail you as you pounce a marine and a hugger instantly hugs them. These tactics are just the tip of the iceberg.
Why not? You have choosen to walk alone as a marine, so I expect you to be prepared and act accordingly. Game is not balanced for fair 1vs1 xeno to marine combat.
Only when alone.
Alright, trough the code fuckery we will allow to hit that lurker with 5 rifle bullets and two knife slashes. Does it change anything? Full health lurker can tank those 5 rifle bullets and two knife slashes, then pounce on you and then do his tackle spam to have a 35% chance to cap you.
Does it make it any better? Will you be satisfied with being able to do meaningless damage to a lurker as a lone marine before he tacklespams after a pounce?
As I mentioned before, if he misses that click, you won the engagement. You want to be able to reliably kill a lurker as a lone PFC? Please.
And because of that, tackle changes for pounce are meaningless. Combat T2 should have a good chance to cap a lone marine.
I might disagree with RNG, but the thing is, basically almost everything in modern CM aimed to be balanced by RNG. Fucking slugs are supposedly “balanced” because there is two RNG rolls that you might miss even though you did everything correctly.
If lurker first pounces, does his wombo combo, then escapes, then pounces again and then tacklespams you, you will be fine with it? If yes, then it is also meaningless. If you are alone, far away from marines, you are fucked, nobody will come, you won’t have time to stop and write “Lurker at location XXX help!” on your squad comms, so you have to pray that people from your squad are nearby and they read chat and actually went to help you, or people from the other squad are nearby and then somebody repeated your message on their comms, they read it and actually went to help you.
It wouldn’t be a significant change to lurker’s gameplay, it would be meaningless nerf to lurker capping ability.
No xeno needs any nerf that specifically aims at 1vs1 scenario. Xenos against group, that is another story.
Either way, you won’t get it. Admemes might keep this pointless thread open, but you won’t get it anyway. Many people for months complain about Vampire Lurker ability to deal with multiple marines and all we got was a couple small nerfs that didn’t even adress the actual issue.
So:
a) Lurker can do much worse things to you than to cap you with his pounce.
b) Why you alone?
c) Lurker 1vs1 capping nerf is pointless.
d) Somehow even if somebody decides to do something about this non-issue, they will nerf lurker in a way that doesn’t adress your concern.
e) Basically only you say that it is an issue. Lurker has been in that state since tackle rework. Any fairly experienced lurker doesn’t even try to cap, because they know the RNG odds and that it is better to maim, only cap when there are other xenos around.
Now it is 2 xenos vs 1 marine that you complain is unfair. Come on, dude. What if 3 warriors decide to gang up and they spot a lone marine, is it unfair for them to cap?
It probably requires less xenos to currently cap a predator than you would feel comfortable to cap a lone marine.
This entire discussion is rendered moot if there is more than one marine present.
A single, lone, marine dying or being capped by a single Tier 2 xeno is completely fair and expected.
I sympathise that the act of being captured 100% removes you from the round, but that is the nature of the beast. Your self-described “salt” is not with the Lurker per say but with the very concept of capture/infection-based gameplay.
MD’s cost like 15 points and are most of the time already sold out at req. Also pretty unreliable if the lurker just stays in one spot as MD can no longer catch him.
Aint that easy unless your john marine, at most I’d like to be able to ensure the lurker backs off so I can limp away. You can’t expect to jump a marine and bam instant capture you have to put some effort into it. Such as lowering the marines HP and giving him a couple of fractures to weaken him before you capture. A single capture is a pretty big deal because that xeno can turn into a T3 in 20 minutes
Yes, because 5 rifle bullets and 2 knife slashes is enough to lower the lurkers hp below 50% meaning that he’ll now need to decide if he can capture me in time before I reverse burst or kill me and back off to heal.
they should have an advantage which is in this case a surprise attack not the ability to instantly capture him with the marine unable to do anything.
Sorry but this is false. My situation is inbetween the front and FOB, meaning that a group of marines will pass by. Aswell with how long the stun is, I’m confident that I’ll be able to write “HELP! LURK!” Also, in this case I will be fine with being captured because I was given a chance to fight back. Unlike having my hands tied behind my back waiting to reach hive then ghost and wait 2 hours for round to end.
no.
A) Captured = Round over. Killed = you may be recovered.
B) sorry bro I forgot to grab my meta buddies since some people can’t aim and generally much faster than waiting for them.
C) no?
D) How is this relevant?
E) Pretty sure people in the comments said that it was removed but apparently its still in here… Oversight?
Good point, should of used another example.
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Allow me to explain again. I as a marine player, was alone at the wrong place at the wrong time, no fractures full ammo and etc, with no MD. It so happens that a prime lurker lands his lunge, and clicks me 2 times with his tackle. Essentially tackling me so I can’t get up unless he stops tackling me. In a normal situation a lurker lands his lunge and press tackle on me. I get up and shoot him praying he’ll back off. However I can’t get up because I’m already tackled.
So a singular skill and RNG is allowed to ruin a players round because that player was alone at the wrong time. Without being able to do anything because its a Tier 2. The lurker doesn’t have to slash just click a marine 3 times with tackle equipped.
What I propose is that the marine is given a chance to get back up, by the time they get up the lurker would of had the chances to land 2-3 tackles on you meaning that you have like 2-4 more tackles before your stunned.
no… pretty sure I’m talking about lurker? I’m all for it that you need to tackle a marine who is still able to deal damage to you. But a marine who isn’t able to do anything at that point you might aswell give the lurker the ability to straight up start voreing the marine alongside the lunging.
Dear god, 15 points. A fortune. Armor is the only thing you have to spend points on that Req doesn’t have either. So as a PFC you can get MD and B12 armor, the rest gotta be in req, you also don’t have to go to req, squad preps have everything if you are fast enough.
Shifting the goalpost. From “as a marine I’m unable to do anything when alone and with lurker around” to “it is not easy, I want to reliably ensure that lurker backs off”.
It matters from metaperspective of swearing your allegiance OOC to marines. I don’t care about marines winning when I’m perma dead, and I especially don’t want them to win if I respawn as a xeno.
Unless you got a shotgun in your armor, or back slot kitted with stock and bayonet, you will do pathetic damage that lurker will almost outheal if he gets on weeds. If he knows map well he will go trough a tunnel to the hive in no time. Even if he doesn’t get to the tunnel, he will cross to the xeno backlines where he will spit you out near other xenos, so you are fucked either way. That damage you would do (that you can do, you just gotta shoot at the MD pings) is almost meaningless.
Reverse chestbursting is confirmed by staff to be a meme and a “panic button” that you can employ while on your way to be hugged.
That ability needs a bit of skill to pull off. It is not Queen’s screech. It isn’t even Warrior’s lunge.
You can respawn as a xeno you know? And as a capped marine you mostly skip the larvae queue.
You know that you can turn off CM and play something else when you died, or just watch YT, or something and then hop in when new round starts? Nobody forces you to ghost and observe.
And what shitty situation is that?
Why you are traveling alone from the front to FOB, or from FOB to front? There is always a couple of guys wanting to go to the front, or back to FOB, even one saves you from this fate of being solocapped.
You are given a chance to fight back, but when you fail a “skill check” to prevent lurker landing his pounce on you, then you wasted that chance to fight back.
You burst and take control of that larvae if you have preferences toggled, skipping the queue. This is basically guaranteed. Killed = you might, or might not be recovered. If you are killed then most likely you have more than one fracture, maybe even delimbed.
Again you are impatient and you suffer from that. I don’t have any metabuddies and I do just fine.
Yes. Lurker is guaranteed to give you fracture by pulling his combo. He can just back off into darkness and pounce you again after his cooldown. If you got “ambushed” one time by him, he will get you the second time before you can even blink, because of course you won’t have MD on yourself because (gasp) you have to spend 15 points on it. Average PFC can buy fucking 3 MDs.
It is revelant in the way that issue you are so concerned about won’t be fixed, even if you menage to convince somebody with authority that it is an legitemate issue.
One person only said that crippling slash was changed to be a slash only, as before it could have been a disarm. The slash speed and the disarm cap is the same.
In PR it says it was unintended behaviour.
And that is a grave mistake that justify even a lowly drone giving you a spanking. A skillfull drone could solocap you in that situation. If you don’t have any AP, or flames then single defender could cap you via tanking all of your shots and simply disarming you.
Not to mention Warrior, a T2 caste who just has to get in range and click on your sprite. He has GUARANTEED cap if he grabs you alone, while lurker has to rely on RNG.
Lurker solocap changes are pointless when warrior has 100% success rate. You can be full HP, have full ammo, have MD, best armor a marine can have, or no armor at all, you can have AP, you can have flames, a single warrior will cap your ass, he doesn’t even teleport next to you when he fails his lunge, because it only works when successfully clicked. And his quantum lunge works around corners that you couldn’t even shoot at him trough.
You are not supposed to meaningfully fight back against T2 caste when you are alone. If you do, it was exeptional show of your skill, or their lack of skill. You demand it to be rebalance into some fair exchange. You will never get it.
No, because this would impact gameplay when there are more marines around.
dying to xenos on my own taught me long long ago to never move to front alone.
it encourages player interaction, communication & coordination.
“radio: Hey, is it safe to move to the frontline?”
“Negative. There’s backliners throughout the northern part of town.”
“I was able to move easily to the front on the western edge of the AO.”
“It was just 2 lurkers.”
“Hey, are you guys moving to the front?”
“Yeah, we just got medded and needed to get some ammo.”
“Okay, so the 3 of us will move to the front. Let’s stay away from the northern part of town. There’s 2 lurkers in there. We can stay west to maybe stay safer.”
*3 marines now made a tactical strategy, and moved together.
im not ignoring it, im saying it doesnt work in practice, you need a solo marine, you need to burn invis and pounce on it, and have to double tackle it, not to mention you cant start the devour instantly like you used to on the pounce.
Its not impossible sure, but the chances of you pulling it off are horrible, ive got 250 hours on lurk myself and i know many other primes who literally never go near caps unless you have a better tackler to assist you.
I dont know the overall statistics, but i bet you the solo caps of lurkers are basically 0 per round with minor deviation.
Solo capping as a runner is viable, you still need a solo marine, you need to land the pounce and hit about 2-4 additional tackles, hard but doable and with a fun skill match to boot, lurk tackles could/should imo be the same in feel.
If you remove the big stun on pounce, make it a big upfront damage thing instead with minor stun, then increase the slashing speed to make tackles more viable you could have all of those things, do you see anyone complaining about runner tackles? i dont, because its a fun skill match up and because its interactive on both parties.
If clicking takes 0 skill, go grab yourself a nade launcher and a nade satchel full of baton slugs. Stun the hell out of xenos with one of the hardest stuns marines have. Should be easy because it takes no skill to sprite click after all.
this is literally marine’s playerbase issue, the problem is not in the game, the problem is entirely in players. It is all your fault that you cannot properly coordinate yourself and move together as a unit. You don’t need to nerf lurkers, it will only increase marines brainrot to run away solo rambo mode LRP no fear. you have to change the others and yourself
I think in my infinite wisdom that lurker is incredibly busted and that it NEEDS to be nerfed even more so i stop dying to it. My suggestion is to downgrade their health to 10 HP but since i am nice this only applies to whenever i am playing the game.
At this point you guys should just do TGMC style, and instead of capping, xenos become absurdly strong by killing and “sucking your life essence away”, so you still can be revived and play game, issue with “perma round removal” is solved ¯_(ツ)_/¯
P.S. you guys forgot there are ERT’s every like few minutes, where you can just become random type of marine in middle of round. (Reinforcements)
if you dont want to play as xeno after capture, and don’t want to play as different marine from ERT, then just stop walking solo and ask to nerf capping, with is sole purpose of xeno existence and mechanic.
If capping mechanic would be removed, then it would lead to people just no FearRP rushing against xenos, like how i witnessed it on TGMC, because i played there to see how it works (believe me you dont want to) and xenos just get rushed by 1 marine with funny machine gun is very “interesting” to witness, because they cannot cap so they can only Attack or Run (you see issue here, if we add support castes to spice it up how weak they are).
Yes i know this whole post is dedicated for Lurker, but 70% of comments argue because of capping mechanic, no one here seem to have much salt of getting killed by lurker in 1v1, so thats why i posted post about capping itself.
I did some math, lurkers are able to have a minimum disarm of 2 for a tackle and max of 7, after a pounce though, you can get around 3 off or so safely due to crippling strike autoing to a slash, using this along with the fact for a chain stun either needs a 2 or 3 disarm tackle from a lurker due to slow attack speed, you have around an 18% chance from getting solo capped by a lurker if they get a tackle then start devouring and going for a 2nd tackle or around a 14% chance if they start devouring immediately due to the fact of you getting up if its not a 2 tap tackle
Anyway getting solo capped by a lurker is comedically low in odds so i would say its pretty fine right now, any competent lurker is NOT going for solo caps even if you are alone due to these low odds of below 1/5
its actually even worse, CS auto slashes and will not work as a disarm, so you need the initial tackle to be on two, and then the followup to be short enough that you can actually devour there as well without taking enough damage to make it back to hive.
I am not particularly concerned about the capping potential of a lurker. Now a warrior on the other hand I’ve been two tapped tackled multiple times. It is hard to counter when being dragged back at the same time with lunge.
If you really want to nerf lurker, make it so crippling strike (CS) shares the same attack cooldown as slashing so they can’t instantly slash+CS in 1 nanosecond when you are pounced. Also make is so CS only works for pounced/resting targets. The current iteration makes it so you can do incredibly good damage with the combo of pounce/slash+CS then retreat with little worry about getting PB’ed due to how quick you can do this.
I feel CS is fine, since the whole point of base Lurker is you have high single-target damage at the cost of being extremely vulnerable if you pounce on someone that is near other Marines who can aid them. With no armour, the Lurker is very vulnerable to anyone who can just rush up and start bursting you down.
Plus, once you have pounced on a Marine you have no escape tool, you can’t pounce away nor can you cloak, you can only run, so it is critical you pounce on someone who is just far enough from other Marines that you have a escape route that can’t be blocked or one that leaves you exposed to a lot of gunfire.
