So why are you complaining about MP’s and not Spec having too much power? If spec commits a crime it’s their own fault for doing it, they weren’t forced to do it by anyone but themselves, MP’s aren’t going out and forcing Specs to commit crime at gunpoint.
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Oh, I do. For a long time I was advocate for removing roles that have concentrated power in order to give it to PFC’s.
I was pro-removal of tank, for example.
Specs are so ingrained into the game I bet my ass nobody will ever remove them. You could literally make a PR that removes specs and gives req stuff that is a much, much weaker version of said specs like single-use rocket launchers and stuff, but it simply wouldn’t be accepted. I’m all for that, I would love to see that change. You can already feel it by taking flamer as PFC.
But something like that requires big mechanical changes, while slapping people with “you will be court-martialed after the OP, you are luckey you are too important for us now” is a simple Marine Law change that requires 0 coding.
You want big mechanical change? Code it yourself. You want Marine Law change? Lets discuss it.
I’m not complaining directly about MP’s, they are a worthless role from bygone era of apop and leaf man with no gameplay reason to exist in a round that doesn’t have admeme-run event. But they should exist for RP and those rare events. I don’t have a problem with MP’s existing, I have a problem with them being forced to arrest important people for being a nuisance. Main bulk of a game is combat.
“Oh no, every single window in prep is broken! How tragic! Without MPs there is nothing we can do, might as well aim mouth on help intent with loaded gun!”
My dear, this is a combat server. Round ends when one of the side looses, in majority of times it is when one of the sides dies out completly. Unlike vanilla traitor SS13 round which doesn’t end with all syndies in permabrig, or permacrit.
You know that minor crimes can be ignored right? so literally the only reason a marine would get arrested (unless the MP is one of those types who arrests everyone for the slightest thing) is if they committed a major crime, and pretty much the only reason you would ever commit a major crime is if you are trying to get arrested.
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From a CMP point of view if a spec did a minor crime often I will try to ignore or give them a njp. issue is when they commit a major crime or an officer order their arrest as a mp you are shit out luck then as you are forced to atleast try to make an arrest.
So I have been thinking on this issue for a while and in all honesty I think having a whitelist council that only focus on military law and have a the CMP as a whitelist role. Then we can give them the full authority of law instead of the CO and allow them to consider if the officer order is legal or not. I just do not think that the Mps are independent enough in and still to much connected with the officers and command.
I understand the issue of the mps do not really add anything else to the rest off the operation and if I were able to make something I would try to do so as I have some ideas for that.
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You know that I have a problem when they are not ignored and spec actually gets arested, thus removed from round?
And you can get slapped for a major crime by simply fighting in a req line. Assault in general is just a threat, or simply harming anyone. So a guy punches you few times, you punch him few times and it is done.
Yes, those changes were added after big MP and ML backlashes in the past. I merely sugest to go further for specific individuals deemed too important for OP.
And if a guy is an obvious grieffer, running around wordlessly punching everyone and stuff like that, it is a grieffer, up to admemes to handle. 10 minute charge, or even permabrig won’t stop him from grieffing.
Never gonna happen, already suggested,
You’re not gonna get arrested for self defence unless you stabbed some guy for punching you, and in the case of threatening someone, well just don’t say “i’m gonna kill you” on comms or something,
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In my opinion assault needs to be variable crime where you minor as in threating or pusshing someone and major as in bringing minor harm or tabling stuff
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I bet it is super easy to prove that you weren’t the one who started it. All assaults happen in direct view of a MP? What if I start a brawl, but when MPs came I say he started and he says I started, admeme gets involved?
Anyway, this is not my point, spec can be even the guy who starts the brawl, who gives, minor nuisance, he is too important groundside, it is a combat server.
We think very different here Cabal you just see it as a combat server which on groundside is fully true but on the almayer it is more of an rp server and it is very different in how things work.
We have very different mindsets in regard to it and considering how a lot of specs behave I would be very much against giving them arrest immunity.
I just thought of this if you see spec as suchs a important rule why not higher their standert in regard to rp like they are not allowed to break ML before the first drop?
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Well for your first point, MP’s have an interrogation room and as stated in ML the person being attacked should try to alert MP’s, and if this did happen in req line almost everyone would see it.
Second point is again, Spec does dumb shit so MP’s are at fault for this and what about your previous example?
So when Spec starts a brawl that could escalate it’s a small nuisance but when MP’s stop Regular marines it’s OK and is actually beneficial?
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And I am full for giving them pretty much just that - arrest immunity.
If they do something major, it is a rule break. They have to deploy, they have to obey orders, they can’t kill people, etc.
And it isn’t only true groundside. Please, tell me what happens shipside when marines kill every single xeno groundside? Like in the next around 3 minutes, what happens shipside, huh?
But that is an actual interesting proposition to make Specs unable to break ML that would also try fix the issue, but in this case admemes would have to be involved, so it is slightly less preferable.
Also I would like this to also involve other important people, mainly the only medics in squad, which in that state are just as important, if not more than a spec.
How many times I have to say that MP’s aren’t at fault, but ML is?
Three should be enough, right? MP’s are not at fault, they are forced to obey SoP and ML.
“So when Spec starts a brawl that could escalate it’s a small nuisance but when MP’s stop Regular marines it’s OK and is actually beneficial?”
Spec shouldn’t be arrested for that, but should be stopped. Are you really trying to put words in my mouth that spec should be above CO in terms of ML that they shouldn’t be touched even if they mag-dump a guy for no reason?
When spec starts a brawl that could escalate, MP’s should stop him, slap him with “you will be court-martialed after OP” and maybe even escort him to DS to make sure he deploys without fuss.
If he won’t deploy with MP’s help, he is breaking the rules. Admeme thing that would still be an OOC issue even without MPs involved, so in that case we are dealing with obvious grieffers.
Grieffers shouldn’t be considered a factor in any IC discussion.
Then they are also required the same RP standard as CO or atleast a MP to be able to get that level of arrest protection. Meaning they cannot break ML at all or it could end in a job ban or perma ban. Meaning even a minor breach without proper RP could become a OOC issue.
I am all for increasing RP standard but I just cannot see heavy spec players follow ML and new specs player might be scared of that.
I think the current situation in regard of specs is fine and mostly the spec themself is too be blamed if they get arrested. Sure there are times when mps are just abusive but that is the same as saying they are a griefer then it is OOC issue.
Keep in mind mps priority is in the safety of the almayer and to uphold ML. That is also why specs do not get special treatment even most Lts and captains are not safe from them.
So we have in essence two paths either we need to increase their RP requirement or we need to decentralize specs I am more in favour of the later.
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I don’t know man, you’re the one saying that Spec should just be let go for any crime and be told "we deal with this later(actually never because the round will end) You want a court martial? well that’s what CO receives off provost, and you said “CO should give Pardons out like candy” which to me says that if an MP does arrest a spec they should be let go, basically meaning that Spec is above the law, which means that Spec can do whatever they want as long as it’s before they have to deploy.
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They should be stopped and maybe (or not even maybe) escorted to the DS. I take gameplay over realism on this one and over RP too in Spec, or the only medic case.
Currently yes, spec should be let go if he ever gets arrested during normal rounds. If it is an event it shouldn’t apply that strictly, but we are always talking about standard rounds without extraordinary admin intervention.
You just picked quotes talking about different topics related to spec, ML and MPs.
“All you can do is to maybe slap NJP on a minor crime, how benevolent.”
It is about how much MP has a freedom of choice. Sure, I forgot to add that minor crimes could be ignored. But the case main case is when important people’s minor crimes (or crimes in general) are not ignored.
Why people have to be punished for other people wrong doings? Why alpha PVT has to suffer, because that gang of ravs without SADAR spec is uncontested?
“Any CO worth a damn should hand out pardons like a candy, unless it is a soft-griefer split drop type.”
COs should currently pardon important people for minor shit (minor not exactly as for minor crimes, basically for everything they can do that isn’t also against the rules). For the sake of everyone who deploys. Also for the sake of the shipside guys, if you want to RP, it is better that round lasts like an hour after first drop and before hijack, than 20 minutes. Not much time to RP if groundside gets easly wiped, which is more likely to happen without spec.
“MP’s should stop him, slap him with “you will be court-martialed after OP””
Important people shouldn’t be untouchable, but they shouldn’t be arrested for being a small nuisance.
There is also just jailing the spec for being a shitter to hopefully make them rethink their actions. Just giving specs essentially having free reign to do minor crimes is not it.
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“to hopefully make them rethink their actions”
Never happened in history of SS13.
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After round threats mean litterary nothing. Its like a chinese ultimatum. It’s the main reason why 99% of the COs show broad hostilities to WY, a benefactor and an important business partner, yet they are never once punished for it since lol.
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Too bad for them, since if they don’t rethink their actions, they will be jailed again as spec.
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OOC issue.
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