Yes, and you’re trying to essentially create another one.
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And every marine player. Xeno player too if it is a steamroll.
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The spec in question should not have done the crime. It is entirely their fault that they broke the law and didn’t expect any consequences.
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Dude, learn to behave, especially as spec. No, specs shouldn’t be above the law, it shouldn’t be a “greif the almayer without consequences”-role. With power comes responsibility. Don’t break windows, don’t insult superiors, don’t knife people for “he’s my metagame friend and allowed it OOCly” or “he looks at me the wrong way, time to kill him” and you’ll be fine. I think specs should get NOD charges added onto any crime, similar to MPs, since they are important for the operation and chose to commit crimes instead of doing their job. (also, I don’t even think specs are that important, three marines with M41s holding W and clicking benos should be as effective)
I don’t play spec. Even if I did, I wouldn’t get arrested, because I usually don’t break the law, or if I do I make sure I will deploy.
“it shouldn’t be a “greif the almayer without consequences”-role.”
I agree, they shouldn’t be allowed to grief and ICly shouldn’t be above the law. But those IC consequences should be postponed after the OP.
“I think specs should get NOD charges added onto any crime, similar to MPs”
They should be executed for even a minor crime. This will teach em. What, 20 minutes in brig? That is pathetic, they won’t learn. Only a firing squad will teach them.
But, as stated before, this could work. If you only make them bound to not break ML by server rules just as MPs are. Shinigami already gave this idea, this is something to consider, but it involves even more admin intervention. Do we want it?
“(also, I don’t even think specs are that important, three marines with M41s holding W and clicking benos should be as effective)”
Surely three marines with M41s holding W can beat AP SADAR rocket, or scout’s information and stealth retrieval of marine corpses, or Pyro’s blue flame etc.
If specs aren’t that important, why Queens go out of their way to gib every single one of them?
Post OP punishment is essentially not a punishment at all since either they are already dead groundside, or they simply don’t come up to the Alamyer to get said punishment before the round ends. It essentially makes them immune to said punishments, making them immune to the law partially.
Because its 3 marines in 1. Gotta have max efficiency with gibbing.
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So basically you cope about how badly specs are treated while having no clue because you don’t play the role at all. On the “IC consequences”, I think I’ll put gameplay over realism like you did and tell you that a “court martial after OP” has like no effect. And on the specs not being important, go set up a private server and do a few tests. The AP SADAR might do more damage with a single shot and works together well with other marines finishing the injured beno off, but I’m sure that three AP M41s without any outside support get, for example, a queen which isn’t moving dead quicklier than an AP SADAR would under similar conditions. On the scouts, well, I have yet to see scouts doing anything meaningful with information retrieval and on high-pop the few marine corpses that he grabs shouldn’t be too meaningful either. Now, on the pyro, I bet that three M41s do more damage than the blue flame, and they don’t block off pushes at all.
Puting words in my mouth, splendid.
No, I don’t “cope” how badly they are treated, nowhere in my posts is there mentioned that they are badly treated.
They are treated like any other marine, but xenos target them way more and shitler MPs might also target them more, but shitler MPs are grieffers and as established, shouldn’t be considered in any way, shape, or form.
And of course spec being such a complicated role that you have to have 100hrs of playtrough to know anything about them.
Court martial after OP has the same effect on a guy like 10-20 minute sentence. None at all.
But if you claim you take gameplay over realism, then it is better for marines to have a better gameplay by having access to a powerfull spec from the get go.
Private server tests are worthless, any dev and more experienced marine will tell you. Private servers have no ping, no lag, no stutters, no clutter, it is a safe environment that is not representative of a real PvP combat.
Stuff can technically have higher damage than something else, but there is much, much more to take into consideration than pure numbers. On paper M41 on burst with normal rounds deals to a unarmored target 9020 dmg, while buckshot shotgun deals only 7800 dmg to the same target. That must mean everyone should just never use buckshot shotgun, right? What is the point? M41 does more damage. Simple as.
Then you put into consideration that 1 spec coordinates with himself faster than 3 random PFCs with themself by the virtue of being a single person and they don’t cooridinate with well, because they can only comunicate with themselfs via chat and not trough telepathy, or atleast voice chat.
You can have a literall firing line of 10 marines standing in line and shooting at incoming T3. One sadar spec can stun it and allow rest to kill it. Those 10 marines can stand in place and just shoot while it escapes offscreen and heals. One pyro spec can flame the way, so nothing but rav, or Queen passes trough.
Sniper can damage xenos that think are safe resting in darkness, scout can kill lone xenos etc.
Specs are powerfull. Any average spec alone can decide the entire course of a round. Something only the most robust PFCs can.
If you decide power of any piece of marine equipment just by numbers, then you are simply wrong and should spend 20 minutes in brig for assault on marine decency.
IC it is still a punishment. Let us not pretend that those 10-20 minute YouTube/Discord/Whatever breaks in brig is such a big punishment for a guy. It is a punishment for every groundside marine, that is without a doubt, but not for that particular guy. Have you had, in your entire CM13 playtime as a marine, a though to do something against the law, but then considered not to, because you might spend 10 minutes in brig? I never had. And I still rarerly if ever break marine law.
I want to add that this is not about protecting spec. It is about protecting groundside marines. If briging spec would give his token and equipment to some random PFC/late joiner, that it would be all fine and dandy. If done in a timely manner.
If 10-30 minutes isn’t an actual punishment to you, but a little text saying “you should feel bad” is, then I don’t know what you want.
But you’re right, 10-20 minutes isn’t enough to be a punishment, and it should instead be a 30-60 minute one, where if an MP don’t think you are responsive enough, they can involuntarily cryo you.
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Yes, they are treated like other people, I want to keep it that way. You don’t. And while private server tests don’t depict actual PvP fights, they would heavily favour the SADAR since he’s pretty much guaranteed to hit and looses a large amount of damage output if he doesn’t, compared to the M41s which spit out enough lead for a few bullets not to matter much, so you can’t really use that as pro-SADAR argument. On the coordination, the three random PFCs don’t need to coordinate anything, they need to click the beno until it goes horizontal. The scout might be able to kill lone benos, but an average M41 marine can just suicide charge into the enemy fortifications and secure the kill, his slot is worth way less than the xeno’s one. The pyro can flame the way and hold off the xenos for a moment, but a fleeing beno will just run through the fire and heal, with riflemen unable to chase it. And you assume that the specs are actually robust and use their equipment as well as possible.
I assume one guy is decently robust. You assume atleast three PFCs close to eachother are. Most of the people are unrobust. I even don’t consider myself decently robust (the reason I don’t play specs).
The odds are in my favour.
High burst of damage is king in SS13, alongside speed and stuns. No, sustained M41 fire is not comparable and doesn’t beat AP SADAR. Sure, it is high risk high reward for trying to hit that AP on that T3, or Queen.
I can and I will use it as pro-SADAR argument, because SADAR stuns, this actually allows other marines to follow up and get the kill. Just M41 spraying bullets achieves nothing, xenos just run away offscreen and heal, or other xeno, like a defender runs in front of them to shield them from damage.
I will say that again: High burst of damage and stuns are better than sustained damage in SS13.
“The pyro can flame the way and hold off the xenos for a moment, but a fleeing beno will just run through the fire and heal, with riflemen unable to chase it.”
Yeah, pretend he doesn’t have 500u of water to extinguish those flames.
“On the coordination, the three random PFCs don’t need to coordinate anything, they need to click the beno until it goes horizontal.”
With zero coordination they will shoot at different xenos, they will FF eachother, they won’t chase together running wounded xeno etc.
Shooting at one and the same xeno requires coordination, or for this one xeno to be completly alone standing for extended periods in the same area. This happens maybe for defenders who fortify.
Observe rounds, especially runners, lesser drones and facehuggers and talk about “not needing coordination” when they run into a big group of marines and dance between them.
Both aren’t an actual punishment. Where it is even implied in my posts that brig sentence is not a punishment, but “you should feel bad court martial you later pal” is?
And as said earlier, they just should be executed and left DNR, hour in brig is still not enough.
I don’t know how you can see missing out on the entirety of the groundside battle as “not a punishment”. Hell, you essentially just miss out on 50 minutes of gametime if you get jailed at 00:20 (and this is not accounting for the time of arresting, processing, and releasing you, which can take an extra 10-15 minutes depending on the MP).
But if you honestly don’t think getting essentially “soft banned” for 30 minutes in the begining of the match isn’t at all a punishment, and might as well just be a little text be “feel bad”, then you need to find fun in the game.
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It is only a punishment if you play like one game a day, or less.
Otherwise it is alt+tab Youtube till sentence is over, or till hijack, so they let you out and you get to fight.
And lets be honest, who (outside noobs who just learned about the game, or grieffers) breaks the ML if they play once a day, or once a week? Nobody.
Those guys aren’t also good at the game either, so not much lost.
Real robust gamer who spend unhealthy ammount of time on this game are worth the salt in my tears, for them it is no punishment at all, they broke the ML out of sheer boredom just to be a nuisance and do a little fuckery via trolling. Beasts groundside I might add.
So basically baldies get brigged while robustos are free to troll other people with no consequences? Is CM a banana republic where people calling themselves robustos can do stuff normal players would get punished for without consequences? If robustos are bored and want to be a nuisance and troll MPs, why shouldn’t MPs be allowed to troll them back? As we are already on it, should admins base their actions on how good the player is? Should bad players get banned for using netspeak two times in a row while robustos are allowed to effectively talk like they would in their metagame IRC without consequences? Or rather, should people who only play once a day get a three hour ban at most while the robustos eat a week ban for the same offense? So they feel equally punished? And is it really needed to handhold specs so they don’t get arrested? Why shouldn’t specs be damage-immune too so they aren’t punished for fucking up groundside either?
Mps do not have to release you due to hijack then can choose to place you in lifeboats or throw you in a pod and then send you off. Also atleast once a week a spec breaks the law on purpose you really do not understand what you are talking about. It feels to me you do not really play any role related to mps. Which is why you do not understand their point of view in regard to this situation and how annoying it can be when a spec is just being an ahole.
I think you need to understand the otherside view a bit more before you can really talk about this.
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IDK man, given it’s the MPs enforcing the law or me blasting them for overreaching, one us is gonna get slept/perma’d (Felix I give an exemption to because he will ahelp against my bwoink). Sure, ML could use a rework by someone with two braincells but I ain’t gonna hold my breath
The hoops of logic you had to make to deduce that from my posts means clearly to me you are arguing in bad faith, so I will stop you right there, or stop myself, you are not worthy of my schizo-posting.
Sure, I don’t mind not being able to argue with you about why specs shouldn’t get ML immunity.
Just do what I did and go robo-cop and then get not only job banned but banned for six months because you were shit : ) I mean a staff member even rolled with it one round then I overstepped and shot the warden and BOOM! There goes CMP. Like I FUCKED up.
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As real answer, since I was pretty tired yesterday, what did you mean with this?
The first sentence sounds like “Robustos don’t feel punished anyways so MPs shouldn’t attempt to punish them” with the second one adding that they kick ass groundside, trying to justify ML immunity for specs futher. If I understood this correctly, it pretty much equals to “baldies get brigged, robustos are busy powergame fragging benos groundside”, but please explain it if I did not.