That I understand but I do think it would help your argument if you said “you want OT removed until it gets fixed” otherwise it just seems you want it permanently gone and never to come back at all. Like throughout this entire thread at no point other than that post did you at all say you want it removed temporarily, which led to people misconstruing your argument.
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I find ot and god stims to belong to tgcm. I dont find it to belong at all in cm, since cm follow the alien movies somewhat. That people join in and make ot and rather ghost instead of playing the round is unsettling for me.
Rounds i see godstims with zero drawbacks and ot at the same time i wonder what kind of game cm is. Does not feel like cm at all for me at that point. Its way overpowered and utter shit to play against. Hvh or xvh. But thats my point of view, but i have no idea how many actually think the same.
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In this case however, the reason it doesn’t work for HvH is the exact same as the reason it doesn’t work for XvH. It is simply unbalanced and extremely unfun to play against.
As I said earlier though, a good chunk of the playerbase only play marine, so HvH is the only time they’re ever subjected to such egregious bullshit and of course at that point the whole community unanimously agrees it has no place in the game.
It’s actually pretty ironic when you see how much “balanced fun stuff” is disabled for HvH.
Have you ever seen what a scout can do in HvH in a normal DS gamemode? Or an AMR? Cause it’s the same effect on most t1s/2s. Honestly I wish we would run more HvH events where nothing is disabled so marine mains can see what if feels like to play against some of the bs.
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I’ve read through the entire post, seen many suggestions and complaints towards OTs and their armaments (Nades, mines, rockets and etc).
I recently started playing OT as I really liked how fun and helpful inc. nades are and wanted to make some myself. There is a very STEEP learning curve to learning OT and the recipes as they can make or break the things OT’s make. Same goes for xenos, if you get young xenos who don’t know anything and charge in you’re gonna lose nomatter what, compared to ancient ravagers which I see quite often getting 49 kills, 20 kills and etc. I don’t see a big uproar against that.
The OT wiki page has a really confusing and discouraging picture as posted above about the chemicals they are able to make, which deterred me for a long time. I’m really grateful for the OT calculator which has helped me atleast try and learn something and talking to other OTs about what mixes they use. You also tend get flamed and cursed at if you fail to live up to the expectations of marines who demand good grenades and all that which is really off-putting to new OTs just learning the job.
Xenos make hugger traps that limit marine movement so they have to right-click all the tiles, which may be hiding hugger and acid traps. In comparison marines got mines to stop superspeed runners, lurkers and spitters trying to get caps/kills, which take out marines from game if they not found. Mines just mean you just don’t get to run around all willy-nilly backrushing marines that are trying to get to frontline.
I shall not touch the subject of rockets as I don’t really make them, all I usually make are grenades and occasionally mines for defending a FOB rush by xenos by slowing them down.
Xenos got a host of options to use when it comes to mines by sending in huggers, lesser drones and what not but they don’t.
OTs also rely quite heavily on research and chemline for their main resources and especially EXP traits for nades and stuff, which rarely come and are focused on by researchers as they are mostly busy making stims which tend to only get sent down after 1.5h+
Also yeah quite often you see OTs just cryoing to make see stuff that they make as who wouldn’t want to see their creations in effect, only to see them sit in FOB under a supply stack. I always build a TV in the OT room to atleast catch some footage of them being used.
To conclusion everything is learnable and adaptable in ways to overcome them and learn to battle against them which should be the fun part of learning. The developers and maintainers try their best to listen to community feedback to nerf some things that are way overpowered but they can’t fix or please everybody.
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So when a marine walk into hugger/acid traps, you agree that they should be permadead? Untreatable? Melted into goop from acid? Permadead like xeno do? There is way less xenos than marines 1/3 so that would make sense. But no, for marines its just something you heal or get surgery for, give a high five and your round is back on track. Xenos do not get that choice at all. Nothing, nada. One click deleted by rockets. Ot mines. So much fun playing
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In a war for attrition the xenos have the upper hand in peeking the corner, hitting and fracturing marines then going behind their wall to get healed up again by either queen, healer drones or just time passing while a marine has to either have medical equipment on hand, find a medic (who i’ve seen dont even fix IB’s but let marines bleed out with simple ib’s) or bleed to death on the battlefield in crit. If a marines gets hugged HAVE to go up to shipside either by Medevac or Alamo to get healed which takes them out of the round for a good 10 min atleast in which time everything can change and fast in the frontline.
If shipside personnel are either understaffed or not the most experienced (1 CT, who maybe a private; doctor who can’t do larva surgery, CIC not properly communicating and what else i’ve seen being complained about) they will also contribute to the eventual fall of the groundside. OT is just one of the personnel that help marines stay out there longer.
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That feels like a malicious comparrison, between OT mines and hugger traps. Because sure. They both can take you out of the game. But the hugger trap can actually be countered except for “going around it”. A hugger trap can be disabled by you shooting it. It can be disabled AFTER its activated by a buddy. An OT mines only counter is having a rav, crusher, or queen step on it. Otherwise it will kill you no matter what.
Edit: Also didn’t touch on how some on the marine side is practicly IMMUNE to hugger traps (synth and GL helmet).
Edit2: Also didn’t touch on how the hugger, if activated fully CAN BE HEALED FROM instead of being permad on the spot.
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49 is the exception rather than the norm and typically requires being alive from round start and a long round where you don’t die, it’s not a ‘quite often’ scenario. In any case the difference is to get those kills the rav is directly at risk of dying. An OT doesn’t suffer any personal risk.
I’m sure there is but its a curve you go through once and then just repeat exactly the same actions every round. For a skilled marine/xeno player on the ground securing kills every round every situation is a new experience to be tackled.
The point of this thread is xenos literally do not have tools to overcome them. I respect your opinion as someone who actually plays OT but I don’t think your comparisons in this thread really make any sense beyond the surface level.
I think you’ve summed this up perfectly, you can’t please everybody so why not make the game better for a larger group of people than a few individuals who’d be sad their OP mines got nerfed. Seems a net positive to me
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Yeah I agree, as an OT player myself, the learning curve isn’t that hard maybe like 5 rounds + 5 hours of research theory crafting to get the right mix of explosives and some people have recipes out there on said instakill claymores. So I think the temporary removal of OT until an amendable solution can be found is good.
Personally I think the best solution to OT, that should be the concept of high lethality high avoid-ability. Like I think we can agree that if marine throws a grenade and you stand or walk on top of it, you should die from making a bad play. Same as the concept of standing in front of a gun or on the position or a mortar strike because bad decision making should make you die for it.
So how do we apply that same concept to things like rockets and mines that have instant detonation, for rockets you require specialist to have an aim down time where they have to wait before firing a rocket so xenos have time to recognize and run away from rocket or kill before it launches. This promotes team work to support specialist to safeguard when they’re vulnerable.
Mines on the other hand you change assembly to timed since 3 sec minimum detonation that should be subject to reduction or increasing depending on balance. Mines create a click noise on stepping on it notifying you stepped on a mine and you have a short time to run away and create distance from mine and thereby reducing damage from mine. This helps in promoting good mine strategy where you can use it in enclosed areas or places where you can slow down the enemy.
This keeps the lethality of explosions, promotes teamwork and strategy by marines, gives xenos counterplay to those with game knowledge and awareness, and punishes people who ignore these on both sides.
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I still don’t get how OT was added in the first place. A role where you mix chemicals to make… better explosives than standard issue? It just seems so strange.
Personally, I think it’s just unbalanceable because the core premise is shit, like specialists.
Explosives are a key tool in stunning and killing xenomorphs. A role which simply enhances and effectively doubles the supply of these explosives simply by existing necessitates it to be balanced as ‘the new normal’, else it be OP (which they already are). Alas, this would mean standard-issue explosives are left behind in every role.
Regardless, Steel is right… we’ll never see OT removed, and I doubt we’ll see it balanced into anything satisfactory for everyone anytime soon (shrapnel PR is commendable, but will never solve the root problem). We are doomed to only mald, cope and seethe.
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Remove OT but bring back HEDP availability and everyone will be happy, trust.
Not even trolling, HEDP is already well balanced grenade type that sucks only cause its so rare nowadays (especially if a grenadier spec is active).
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watched half the xenos instantly die to OT mines again. But I finally found the perfect solution
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A small guide to counter OT mines
Locate OT mine (spam right click)
Get behind (or side) the mine
Click the mine, If under other sprite, press Alt + Left Click to the mine then click it in the “plating” tab
OT mine exploded and you lived but your on fire
Tell Crusher to step on mine(probably will die if many mines chained together)
OT mine exploded and Crusher is on fire
Tell Lesser drone/Hugger to step on OT mine (Will 100% die)
OT mine exploded and they die but you lived
Idk if theres more counter
Locate OT mine (spam right click)
Make a mental note to yourself and avoid it
Other will probably die
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My suggestion for a nerf is to reduce Claymore Shards from 40 to 20. In the video its base-shrapnel with 40 shards but if its 20 Shard Limit it wont be able to one-shot lurkers, 450HP w/o Armor (crit)(tested).
Shrapnel Accuracy buff was great, without it shrapnel will probably be not used or notice by anyone. Damage buff is probably not a great idea
Two ways to nerf OT claymores
Reduce Shard limit to 20 or remove the damage buff to xenos (both will only crit lurkers)
Pre-Buff Shrapnel
Created: Thursday, December 26 2024, 9:16:52 pm
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Another fix alongside yours. Make it so if a Xeno slashes an OT mine, it gets destroyed without going off. This at least gives some amount of counterplay other than “just don’t trip it lmao”.
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Imagine if OT mine gets weeded the IFF changes into xeno only IFF
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@Drathek are you still not of the opinion it’s busted? How can anyone defend this…
there would be zero way to slash an OT mine as any compentent OT makes it proximity based instead of tripwire.
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The only reason why OT mine (tripwire) works so well because of 0s activation and direct PB of all shrapnel. Proxy-igniter have like 1s delay and 1 radius minimum.
I guess proxy-igniter with super delayed maxfire works but i doubt its gonna kill any xenos unless its lesser drones