instantly deleting a backliner midround isn’t a comeback, it’s just unfair and severely punishes a single player while adding absolutely nothing, narrative or otherwise, to the round.
you literally just said this, the cinema…
seriously though, if your justification for a completely unfair mechanic is that players only have to tolerate it for 1/5 rounds, what do you say to the person who only has time for one or two rounds and both of them are spent waiting 40 minutes for landing so they can play just to be instantly deleted? Having to put up with that kind of bs even once a day is unacceptable.
Spot the OT mines, anyone in this thread arguing it’s soul or ‘cinema’ would you feel like it’s fair if you were oneshot back to the larva queue by this
So from reading this thread, I think the biggest issue in the game are the rockets and the mines, but I think people aren’t complaining about the OT grenades because they’re avoidable. I think the reason why OT rockets and Mines are so deadly is because little to no indicators to create space between them and the explosion. So here are some ideas:
Mines can’t use igniter igniter assembly but the igniter timer which means minimum 3 secs delay combine that with a sound ping to notify the triggering of the mine which should allow xenos player to try and run out of the range to survive. Of course in the future maybe timers on mine can be shorten or lengthen depending on how strong it is at that point. But these are some examples on how to remove the instakill nature of mines
Rockets have a wait time to fire, a small period of time before the rocket can fire making the specialist vulnerable by making him stand still for a second before firing which should allow xenos to notice that and either attack before it launches or run away. Again this wait time can be adjusted to need or buff if it proves to be still too strong or not
Another option is to reduce the warhead capacity since it’s basically a grenade with longer range and gives xenos no reaction without much downside outside of requiring a launcher and to shoot from and a reloading time that can be done outside of combat
Last adjustment idea is just lower the container maximum limits so it’s not able to do the same damage as a grenade basically
Well to be fare are mines in real life fare click. Bad stepping on a mine joke aside rockets tend to be unavoidable when you fire them unless your neo or a very bad shot (new sadars especially fill this bad shot void). I can tell exactly where the mines are in that pic lol.
Also ive seen rounds turn around due to backliners being stopped via claymores. Being able to pick off the one medic during low pop hours sucks for everyone involved marine wise. Bad claymore placement is also a detriment to marines and ive seen a whole platoon get wiped by my claymores.
Btw we are complaining about mines actually doing there job, same with rockets. Kinda seems like complaining about the sky being blue or the sun being too bright.
Sure and I can too but if youre moving at high speed or in active combat or whatever you can’t realistically be right clicking every tile with random clutter on it
It’s a xenos job to kill all the marines/survs/humanoids that’s why complaining about vamp or zerker rav or shamen or queen screech or whatever is like complainig about the sky being blue
Take responsibility to guard your medics then! the conflict over the backline, an integral part of the game shouldn’t be decided by static mines
This is actually a genuinely great post; you identified the problems with the role and offered fixes, and while I’d probably have to see it in game to be sure, I think xenos wouldn’t have nearly as much of an issue with OT if something like this was the case.
If anyone who knows how to code is willing to do something like this, that would be awesome!
Thanks, I’m fairly new(three weeks into the game) and mostly main research and OT so I want to make it clear I’m not saying this from an antagonistic or hostile perspective, rather from a more I want more variety in builds and ideas and not be forced into a build simply because it’s the most meta in terms of what I should be making as an OT.
My thought process behind those ideas was that the only other explosives that use igniter igniter other than rockets and claymores are mortars, and should be more in line with those kind of weaponry in terms of warning (AKA the giant blinking exclamation mark on that one tile). However, mortars have a bigger payload than whatever claymores or rockets can deliver from a 1:1 perspective, and should therefore have a less noticeable indicator than that. So we must come to the conclusion that rockets and claymores should be longer than instantaneous no counterplay upon activation but less counterplay than that of a mortar or else it will be entirely trivialized, making it useless.
Haha, the great story with RP of a mute marine getting max cap OT shit and then killing several xenos. He is roleplaying Gordon Freeman-esque motherfucker.
If anything, only Stims allow any kind of comeback. OTs just pumps max cap explosives roundstart predrop, then ghosts to see how marines handle it. Perfect comeback for underdog SADAR spec.
Remove OT.
It is a videogame. Job of a claymore mine, or SADAR rocket is to explode. That is their job. It is not their job to fucking delete xenos in “isometric PVP 2D videogame”.
Both can use this fallacy. Xeno acid blood is here to do its job, so we should complain that the sky isn’t blue, because Xeno acid should just melt marines as seen in movies and other media.
Remove OT.
Another idea that we can safely throw at the big pile of OT balance ideas. It is not even original, rockets and mines were already identified as a big part of the problem ages ago.
Nobody will code it, somebody might start, but they will drop this not even half way.
In response to your last part of your post I disagree and I’m going to break down your 2 points you have.
Originality
Not original, this part is true. Most of my ideas are taking mechanics from stuff that already exist, igniter timer assembly, the red circle loading thing (don’t know the exact name but it’s the kind when you do surgery or wrenching something). Personally, I’m not a proficient coder to know the limits of the game so I try to relate it mechanics already in the game. Additionally, I don’t think we need to reinvent the wheel to fix the gameplay loop so it’s not one sided fights with no counterplay. Secondly yes rockets and mines have been identified as issues and what my ideas intend to address, but more importantly it’s doing it in a way where we alter core concepts rather than number shifting where people disagree on how high or low the damage numbers should be.
2.coding it out
As stated above paragraph that I’m using features already in the game which should make it easier to implement. Secondly I would argue it would be easier to code than removing OT because you’re going have to argue about how weak base game sadars rockets are or something similar to that degree (Not saying I agree or disagree with that argument simply noting people have issues with base game explosives being too weak) so I would say that you would have to tweak that entire system and would take more effort to code and test than trying out some of my ideas out.
If those ideas don’t work I would be happy to shelve that idea. However, I do think these new mechanics I’m talking about would vastly change how impactful the OT explosives are on xenos. They might not work entirely at the on set and would require some adjustment but I do think there is some substance here to make OT fair and balance. If you have any other arguments against it, I would love to have a discussion about it.
We have problem with OT for ages now, multiple ideas have been thrown around and multiple coders tried to fix it. They all failed. Time to admit defeat and remove OT.
All and all I enjoy OT right now and I dont tend to abuse the shrapnel. Shifted to fire only and I plan on staying that way so at this point I say “dont remove OT.” Wont change my mind about it but it will be enjoyable to see changes as long as some “firey lethality” is still around. I love cooking bugs both while they are alive or dead
Queen pizza forever!
Yeah I’m not going to lie he isn’t doing a good faith arguments and is ignoring the opinions of others. So I’m starting to think it’s not worth discussing matters with him.
Because OT is not a matter worth discussing over. We had countless threads about it and nothing really changed.
Roll the Vass’s “definition of insanity” speech.
It is doing the same shit over and over and over again, and guess what, nothing changes. OT is still a broken mess and will remain a broken mess.
Removal of OT with its return (AS A TESTMERGE) (WHEN) somebody actually works the code on it and doesn’t drop it halfway is the only option.
It is the rational approach and in “good faith”.
If somebody right now just added a gun for marines that requires you to solve sudoku before firing, but each bullet one shots every single xeno including Queen and King, would you keep messing with sudoku puzzle while gun is still available in game in its broken state for a year, or would you remove the gun, wait till somebody makes it good and then put it back?
From my point of view every single guy who, at this point, makes yet another “OT balance idea”, is making it in either “bad faith”, or “stupid faith”.
Countless people had the same opinion and the same arguments like you did and almost everyone listened, myself included. But this just doesn’t work and this dumb policy of “improve not remove” is genuinely making the game worse. The biggest, most cancerous shit can get merged and then we are stuck with it till some kind stranger code-grease monkey fixes it.
Remove OT. Then try to came up with those ideas (totally new and never proposed, or being considered before) to “fix” OT and then code it. When you are done, testmerge new OT fix for a while.
This is how you balance a game like a sane individual.
I feel like the biggest argument about OT being impossible to balance is the fact it simply does not exist in faction clash.
TBQH I can see why OTs enjoy the art of mixing shit together and making awesome bombs then cryoing to watch the magic.
Equally I can say as someone who has been obliterated by them as a pred and xeno, instantly dead with nothing I could have done, it feels pretty bad. Funny, to be sure, extremely funny, but imbalanced.
If OT couldn’t make mines that’d be a marked improvement, at least then it’s only things with a degree of counterplay (Sure grenades/rockets/mortar are all still insane but you can do something other than ‘should have right clicked everything’)
Those of us who work on balancing the HvH/Faction Clash game mode quickly came to the conclusion that OT explosives were supremely unbalanced for the gamemode and that the only viable path forward was to remove the OT from the gamemode.
Firstly, the UPP don’t have their own equilivant.
Secondly, OpFor simply had no counter play to OT explosives. The extreme power of OT explosives, plus how fragile Humans are, made it that a halfway competent OT, and a competent person using them, would be able to annihilate UPP with impunity.
I was witnessed to multiple egregious incidents of OT explosives making the event simply unfun. There is no counter to a grenade that wipes out any human on the screen, or a mortar that may as well gib someone with no chance to escape. A RPG rocket that annihilates half the frontline or a OT explosive that permas you.
Of course, I will predicate this by saying a lot of what works for Xenos versus Marines does not work for Humans versus Humans.
Okay so your issue was with how development was being implemented which is a point I understand and agree that it would probably be better to remove it temporarily until we reach a point of sufficient balance before putting it back in. Whether that comes in the form of a rework or balancing some numbers that might fix it.
But if people won’t start demanding its removal, it will never reach that point. Giving yet another idea to fix OT doesn’t solve the issue, removing OT would.
