Revives sunset pr

Just wanted to make this topic as I didn’t want to have the Dev channel blobbed with balance arguments.

The PR in question:

Personally I don’t like it since it buffs surv rushing, and nerfs drone rushing.

And If you ask, yes I played with it when it was first introduced.

as you were told in dev channel, making the game more imersive and interesting takes priority over balance. Improvise Adapt Overcome. (I am only leaving this for people who did not read the chat to repeat stance of the people who have say in what is added into the game)

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To preface, I think survs are in a horrible spot atm. Good survs used to easily deal with and kill t1’s. The change to have only drones early just increases the skillgap between players, allowing good surv players to get even more of a reward of roaming and getting good loot, while leaving bad surv players still easily cappable.

New maps since then(chances and hybrisa), have insane loot pools(spec items, sg on chances, custom shotty and a multitude of various turrets weapons etc on hybrisa). Balance devs and map makers are clearly on completely different wavelengths and make little to no communication on loot balance.

This PR will just make good surv players have an even easier time rushing drones and loot while giving maybe a hint of survivability to bad surv players.

Yes the soulness is cool, whatever, a little bit of light who cares. But at least make surv skill ceiling a little more standardized. (Its a pvp game for christ sake. If you try and say it isn’t(especially if youre a dev), then youre genuinely coping and should actually be making an effort into drifting CM away from pvp tendencies)

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if it’s too big of an issue just have the sunset completely end (utter darkness) at 0:06 (the moment drones evolve) or 0:07

Bonus:

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I also told you that you could add the soul without affecting balance, by making the sunset take 1-2 minutes instead of the entire 4-5.

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How are xenos that have nigth vission nerfed by a fancy ligthing pr?
Like, the sunsets are about 4 minutes long. First drop is about 30 minutes after round start.
And the other gets triggerd by the round end.
How does this effect balance?

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I never once argued for the Marine Vs Xeno balance. I am explicitly talking about the Survivor Vs Xeno balance. And so far, so is everyone else.

But to answer your question. It dosn’t do anything to the Marine Vs Xeno balance at all. Nothing, except for straggler xenoes being more visable (but I don’t really care about it). But it does affect Survivor Vs Xeno balance as it buffs survivors for the 3-4 minutes by giving them NVG level of lighting everywhere outside, while simultaniously having starting lights on some maps, making the entire map lit for that duration.

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Honestly you’re not thinking about how this will combat delayliens at round-end as well, really good change. Pure Soul.

Also the only thing I’ll say about the balance aspect is, it only lasts 3 minutes right? That’s not a long time, and all actual decent survivor players don’t need light to know where to grab the best loot, the loot argument is invalid.

Speaking of loot though, where’s the balance in Xenos instantly melting loot like the Mining loot and MAR50 on maps like Solaris? It’s literally impossible to grab that loot if a Drone spawns in, rushes there and melts it. Literally nothing you can do. Same can be done on other maps with loot, stop complaining, loot doesn’t make a survivor a good player, doesn’t stop Drones from two tapping you.

I really don’t have an issue with the time going down from 3 minutes though, even though it’s not a long time, doesn’t effect inside caves ect, they’re still dark.

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Because the survs can see and therefore shoot them

It’s undoubtedly a surv buff I just think it’s a worthwhile one. While it does make it more dangerous for drones to be active against survs and deny loot which bears consideration and further balancing, it has the benefit of helping newer players find their bearings and navigate while also being super immersive. Making the sunset shorter so it denies less xeno time could work but wouldn’t be as neat, perhaps there are other ways to balance for this change as well.

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Cool, and i never said anything about it effecting marines.
I mentioned the drop, because survivers need to survive until the drop can happen. Thats the whole thing for them.

And again.
How does a bit more ligth the first 4 minutes of the round, wich many xenos are still in caves, out of 30 minutes, effect ballance in any meaningfull way? Oh it gives NVG? Cool, not really usefull if its for the 4 minutes where not much happens.

Its not even any 4 minutes. Its the first 4 minutes of the round. That doesnt actually give enough time for people to do anything. The hive is barley evolved during that time.
There is literally, no meaning full balance impact with this.

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Well, that I explained in the topic at hand. It buffs survivor rushing (survs rushing to get gear close to hive spawns since its better), and nerfs drone rushing (evoing drone ASAP to go fight survs ASAP). And how it does it is by giving survivors what is essentially timed NVGs (gampelay wise) until defenders can evo.

If you believe there is no balance impact to it then that is your opinion. But if you play as a drone or survivor rusher you will feel the impact.

You can even see in the original PR that it was aimed at nerfing drone rushing.

Edit: If you wanna go into the details of “Is drone rushing necessary?”, you may look no further than this guide. [v1.1] A Survivor's Guide to Chances Claim [LV-522] - #6 by unknown920 (example of survs getting all their shit in 3 minutes or less).

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Yeah man, the person that originally made the PR aimed so much to nerf drone rushing with it,
that they said that it wont nerf drone rushing. And activly are for drone rushing themself.

Also, one of the three rushes in the guide ends at 5 min 10s. about 2 minutes after the buf would run out(on another map but dont matter.).
The other two end 10 seconds before the buff would run out.
grafik
or the moment it ends.
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And those are examples for if they arent attacked and no other suviver is also taking that loot.
Its generally unlikely they are done before the “buff” ran out.

Also, i like to remind you. This is a diffrent map. The “buff” doesnt effect chances.

Fun thing, the buff is not even for 4 minutes, I was wrong about that. Because in practise it is only 3 minutes that are effected.
I went and checked the times when xenos unlock casts.
It takes about a minute for the hive to be able to even have drones.
If you want a refrence when the sunset “buff” is over, its about when xenos unlock defender. Dont even got acces to runners and the buff is already gone.

But sure, if you think those 3 minutes are worth anything substancial. Thats your opnion.

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What do you really expect by making this thread though?

Will you just admit it’s a cool and immersive thing? It adds “soul” as people would like to call it, and barely (if at all) effects (balance), which let’s be honest shouldn’t really be considered when it’s talking about map loot.

It works both ways, either the loot is camped/melted instantly, or grabbed before Drones can rush it.

Let’s also be honest how aids it is getting rushed and tackle spammed by Drone rushers, I’m all for buffing Xenos if it means Drones can’t instantly rush and get lucky with a two-tap tackle by any means.

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I already told Cuberhound that I wasn’t against the PR in and if itself. I was against the balance issues I have with it, and solutions for it. And personally, its not the loot that I worry most for, but more so the combat advantage you have with full visibility when you are getting drone rushed. You now see them 7 tiles away, which means much less surprises, longer range fighting, and generally a combat boost during those first crucial minutes. And they are crucial. I know. And I urge the people who dismiss my balance claim to try drone rushing.

I already asked for something other than drone to be added to the start, but got a “We made it that way so survs have a chance”, which i wholeheartedly disagree with.


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Thought the buff lasted 240 minutes, to which it felt back then.

And for the guide, I chose it explcitly on “Why you need to dronerush”, because otherwise they will do all this shit before defenders drop. It is also an argument against “Just don’t dronerush. Just build hive or something” which i also got in the Dev channel.

And yeah. I do think it is substantial enough that survivors now have 7 tiles of vision instead of the 3-4 that they have in that timeframe. Especially when it comes to CC where all of them spawn with long range guns.

I also didn’t touch on survs now running around without flashlights or similar during that time. Which makes running into a surv when you don’t want to much higher.

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The feeling as the sunset kicks is also really damn immersive, like the calm before the storm just ended.

As far as balance goes, robust survs are already going to be rushing the loot if it’s dark or light it’s not going to be a colossal difference.

While vision increase from the light is useful I think so long as you have weeds and slap on frenzy you don’t need to be dragged into any fight you don’t want to be in. Always been able to wiggle out of my fights in time.

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What else COULD you even add that isnt worse?
Runner? That got far sigth and stun.
Senti? That has 3 abilitys about slows/stuns.
Defender? Got a fling, and also the xeno with the highest armor in the game. Steelcrest excluded.

Drone is the only T1 with no CC ability. So how in the word is it better FOR survivers if xenos could rush em with xenos that have CC abilitys.

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The whole thing about drones can be disassembled by a single argument of “drones are NOT a combat cast, so combat-related advantages should not be taken into nearly as much consideration”. Its a simple truth - you might disagree with it, but it is still going to be a factually correct statement.

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I disagreed with survs not standing a chance if all 4 T1s were available at 00:06. It was litterary like that in the past, where survs would do da funny runner PB every round since someone wanted to go for survs ASAP. BOO was a prime example (hehe).

Also, a bit deviant from the main discussion, so i’ll let it be from my side. Feel free to argue about the other things i discussed.


Okay, and? I never argued that they were a combat caste, nor that they were prime combat potential. I don’t know where you are getting this, or this declaration of “Drones aren’t combat castes” being relevant at all to the conversation.

Do you mean to say any debuffs, direct or indirect, to combat that drones get, shouldn’t be bothered to look at?

Please elaborate what you want with your statement.

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Overall, I think this contributes to a net positive for the game. I don’t think it disrupts the balance of the game very much and definitely gives less skilled or more roleplay oriented survivors and bit more of a fighting chance.

Not to mention, I would argue that immersion and cinematic features that make the game feel more realistic and grounded are WAY more important than “balance”. The game is a LOT more fun when we’re loosing.

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Sorry but you have to be trolling. Survivors in the past would be insta rushed and instantly killed before even having a chance to grab “anything”, plus you didn’t spawn with the same guns as you do these days, there was less survivor variants ect.

It was pure cancer and pointless playing survivor. These days it’s a lot better, but honestly you talk like survivors survive more then 10% of the time, in reality 90% of the rounds the survivors are wiped, your complaints are all just invalid.

Try playing survivor and you’ll see what I’m talking about, but I know you’re a Xeno main who doesn’t understand the struggle.

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