Should Research return to being Civilians/Employed by W-Y and contracted by the USCM?

What I don’t like about CIC, is that when you get to make greenos or something similar, like 80% of CO/XOs just instantly say “here’s how it goes. Swear loyalty to me or die.”

That and they usually don’t give time for Research to do any RP with the greenos, and they just want to deploy them ASAP because they might lose ground side.

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This happens every single time a CIC Member comes to check on the Research xenos, they instantly say something about an alliance in exchange for either the colony (which they have no right to hand over) or providing more hosts or other reasonings, which after the Queen agrees because, why wouldn’t she, they leave and tell the Researchers to deploy them ASAP. No time for RP once the CO or XO rolls up to Research and that is the only time a CO or XO will ever step in Research.

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Greeno “roleplay” is the worst thing in the game, its literally in the sewers alongside xeno roleplay standards.

Too many people treat Greeno’s more like they are over glorified pet dogs and cats. Not the fact these are nightmarish monsters that want to literally infect you with a embryo that will kill you in the most horrifyingly way imaginable.

CO/XO’s demanding the Greeno’s be unwavering loyal and threatening to terminate them at the first hint of disobedience is, unironically, very high roleplay.

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Yes, next question.

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Could be a toggle in preferences like for Combat Correspondent - although since there would be multiple in a round with potentially different statuses that could lead to even further confusion (potential conflict driven RP however?). Military research facilities do exist, and are staffed with direct commissioned PHDs (e.g. US AMRIID, Naval Research Centers).

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Good to see that a WYCI topic actually resulted in someone coding it for once. Assuming the PR goes through, I kind of wish something similar would happen for doctors, because the whole “you’re an officer but not in the chain of command” thing is weird to me (doctors and researchers both have this)

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I mean, it would be kind of weird to have both contractors and also USCM officers looking the same and working in the same environment but one is USCM and the other WY. IMO it being a toggle is going to be more confusing and way more conflict than it entirely being WY.

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Doctors are generally commissioned officers in most militaries though - it wouldn’t make sense for medical doctors/surgeons to be made civilians, even if the researchers are.

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Eh, I’ve had a lot of good and bad RP instances of greenos with varying levels of success. Had one where I was essentially being interviewed by the CC, about how the mindset of a Xeno was. Had another where a researcher tried their hardest to make a predalien, but left me locked up for 30 minutes alone (I broke out and gibbed him), and another where I got threatened by the CO, so I instantly started communicating with the normal hive and locked lifeboats before the ship crashed.

It all depends on your view as queen, and how prideful you play it.

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I just think that the “they’re an officer with a rank but not in chain of command” thing is strange. Doesn’t have to be resolved by making them a civilian. If they’re just added to the chain of command to resolve that, great.

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It can’t be a stretch, I’m not interpreting anything, those are quotes. Jean mentioned on the other thread that research projects often get shut down by CIC and them being civilian would allow them to challenge CIC on their goals and methods and stop being such yes-men. I know it’s a trend to call the truth and facts a stretch or personal interpretation because they’re offensive to one’s ideas but again, they’re quotes.

A good compromise as others mentioned would be to let researchers chose whether they’d be civilian or military. Military and civilian scientists already work together IRL for some projects and the lore is what we want it to be.

I don’t know if you guys @RainbowStalin and @BadAtThisGame were just complaining about CIC shutting down greenos without any link to this thread but if that’s not the case and you included that as an argument for making research civilian, research being civilian isn’t gonna change that. CIC has always been able to shut down research projects even when research was civilian. You’re just feeding in my belief that the return of civilian research is linked to salty researchers. More factions lead to more interactions but it’s functionally gonna change nothing to how rounds go, it’s like the CL being from Souto instead of WY. The RP conflicts you guys keep going about are background stuff, it’s like “I formally protest”. I’m all for it but I don’t believe the playerbase is gonna appreciate where the beauty of civilian department lies, in the interactions between civilians and military personnel over coffee breaks or when they’re sharing their backgrounds.

@V3nturis You just figured out the whitelists system :nerd_face:
Just like management has always the final say in everything, COs with synths and preds have additional powers and tools to guide how RP goes. It’s how things are right now.

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The only quote you presented was “yes men” which is two (one?) words presumably from an actual sentence, you can’t just say that you’re quoting somebody and use that as a shield to go “oh I’m 100% factually correct because quote” when you haven’t actually quoted anything at all, ESPECIALLY if you’re going to use it to say that somebody is being disingenuous because they don’t immediately switch over to your side upon hearing the word quote.
(Research also wouldn’t be free of CIC’s control even if they were civilians, it’s a USCM ship, so what the USCM says, goes, and the MPs always want somebody to arrest)

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Yes, my only direct quote was the yes men one. My argument was though built on the others which I linked hours ago, which is that Jean agreed research should become civilian again to oppose CIC one way or the other. I assumed that BadAtThisGame (to whom it was destined) who linked both threads in his PR containing Jean’s post and even quoted some specific answers like Chen’s wouldve done his research and find out what I was talking about but he just singled out the ones that accomodated him and called the others a stretch.

Sorry if I violated the high-school debate club rules on coming in without full quotes but when you quote a book, you should know what its different parts are about without needing exact words, or do your research on it. End result is even if the form sucks, I haven’t made a stretch of anything.

I think I’m gonna be off this thread now, it’s truly only in on-line communities you can lose such time arguing about something that doesn’t even matter.

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I have no clue why you even @ed me, since I have 0 clue why you think I’m trying to “make research independant” or some shit. True, i complain about the lack of RP some roles give, leading to purely TDM type of roleplay, but that dosn’t mean “CO was mean to me, make it so i can do whatever i want even though he said otherwise”.

Like at best i said “Make research WY territory” or some shit, but you could still just barge in and arrest all the researchers if they are being a threat to the ship, whilst they also have to obey marine law like the rest.

But true, you really should stop arguing.

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This also goes a long way to explaining why the Almayer even has a research department in the first place; because of a contract with weyland yutani specifically to research aliens.

Everything just fits together a whole lot better imo.

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Does anyone have a link or reference as to why we initally swapped from Civilian to Military scientists? I’d be interested in knowing the original rational, lest we repeat some forgotten mistake as to why this change was made?

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I don’t know why you think to say I am disineginous or if that’s even the right word to put in this scenario, but you used a quote from Jean. I read both forums and each individual post and even pointed the negative ones in the previous forum on the PR. But that does not mean that what I said is not true. Your quote fits one persons view and I plainly stated that not all of them want it for that purpose. So I don’t know why you think to call me stating that, while SOME (Like Jean, who you used the quote from) may want it to go against the yes men mentality, still other Researchers might not want it to be like that?

Maybe it was some sort of miscommunaction but you keep on going on another post. “singled out the ones that accomodated him” Like come on man.

Also, me and Rainbow were discussing how CIC handles Greenos should they approve them, never stated anything at least me, that states that I somehow complained against CIC shutting them down. Only how they act towards them once they accepted them in the first place.

Sorry if you felt I was “singling out your arguements for my own accomodation” apparently.

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Didn’t read the whole convo but since there is still some discussion, I’ll put my own 5 cents.

Question is actually very simple. Have the militarization of research brought anything interesting to the table? Answer is NO.

Do any-fucking-one from research or medical departments ever play like they are actual even though non commanding officers? Answers is also no. Never. Even req play more like officers than med and research. And at the very least civilian research allowed you to roleplay “civilians first!” during evacs. It wasn’t perfect, but it added at least some depth to the game. So yeah, answer is simple, we need civilian research and med. Or make it WY, I personally don’t care. Only people who want military research are milsim fans who hate fun.

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I just think it adds cool things for RP, for example with greens, I find it very interesting when researchers RP developing them for medicinal/industrial or other civilian purposes, clashing against the wishes of CIC to develop them for military ones.

I am not exactly sure what I wrote on this subject in the past, but I don’t think research being FULLY independent to be wise, there are plenty of dumb and LRP researchers who don’t need to be given more crumbs of power. Current power dynamics with CIC are fine.

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Greenos shouldn’t even be a legal thing to allow, and realistically any researcher creating them, let alone releasing them, should be executed on the spot. There’s no “RP” to be had about this from an IC perspective. You’re creating more of the same murderous alien monstrosities that we are literally being sent to fight, and are releasing them without ANY testing or capacity to control them besides the meta knowledge of “well they probably wont betray us”.

Turning them into civies creates no “roleplay” because I’ve rarely seen Medical and Research do much of that anyway outside of their own departments. Medical can be too busy, or just plain bored, and Research just sits on their asses all game doing, yknow, research, while begging for xeno bodies to be brought up, and when someone outside of their department enters research they will point and gawk at that person like they’re an alien lifeform themselves.

The issue isn’t military ranks, it’s the players, and in part, the mechanical state of medical and research - both of which are atrocious. But no, civilian research is just a powertrip for research players because they wanna hide behind the CL and PMCs again (like they always did in the past) when the CO and the entire MP department bust down their doors with the intent to BE or Permabrig them for disobeying direct orders not to create a green hive.

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