Surv (on most maps) just sucks. That’s it. It is unfair (to where I honestly believe the boulevard of jackal snipers is more fair), stupid and bordering on a waste of a role.
But what if we made it not shit, or at least not mind numbingly frustrating as it is right now?
To be entirely serious, survivor is a role that can be really fun, and has a lot of RP potential, but it is completely hampered by the fact that they are too weak on most maps, do not even have tarps on most maps to have the OPTION of fighting xenos or hiding to roleplay, and have nearly no loot to use. This means, that you have to entirely rely on molotovs on most maps, which just results in cade hugging for 20 minutes, until marines show up. Or you die.
Survivor, also sucks to fight. Either you rush them as drone, and meta all their loot locations, or you face a mini-FOB siege, with the addition of molotovs. Very boring as a xeno, to the point where most just AFK in hive until marines land.
From both sides of the coin, survivors SUCK. They suck to play as, and they suck to fight.
Yeah pretty much, survs are just a little sidequest when waiting for the main force anyways, making them fit the impossible box of fair and balanced but optional to fight, without having them cause too much of a swing in the actual match, but still able to impact rounds a little is basically impossible.
IMO the current build of survs sitting in a mini FOB is pretty boring, but atleast it fits with how they should be handled pretty well, they wont impact rounds massively since they cant push out super hard, arent a hard strategic target that xenos HAVE to fight in order to win, and have a somewhat decent chance of making it out of the initial stage. the only real current downside is they aint super fun to fight/fight as.
Id love to see some surv objectives, something like an escape pod that needs refueling and that they can leave with, UPP survs landing on the almayer could be very interesting, either wounded and just wanting out, or getting shot to shit by sec are both somewhat interesting and keeps command just a little on their toes. But then again there are issues with that balance wise as well.
As for the loot that both marine/xeno metarush, yeah, IMO its not a massive “issue”, bigger issue overall is that survs can get access to things like thermals, and if you dont get a chance to melt them you will have a super unga on your hands, information like that is extremely valuable in CM combat.
If surv loot was randomized, generally a little stronger then currrently, but without cheap shit like thermals and a tac shotty it would improve the situation on metarushing for both sides.
survs are in a poor spot and are nearly completely forced to use cheese tactics and the same spots to have even a slight chance of living.
hard to change, however, because any buffs will lead to them just rushing the drone only hive on certain maps. personally i believe that xenos should be able to evo to defender the same time as drones(immediately), because the caste isnt that strong against surv like runner and sent. then remove certain cheese tactics like infinite molotovs. this would allow for power to be properly allocated to surv mechanics/balance that are actually interesting to use/fight
I always liked the RP aspect of survivor (both as a surv and as a CL), but I’ve written it off entirely since its an incredibly weak role and chance is I spend the rest of the match post 00:15 spectating.
But to be honest I’m not entirely sure what we can really change for survivors. I think the more robust and familiar people get with the game/maps the more natural power gaming occurs round to round and this occurs for xenos and survivors/marines. Some kind of unique update that maybe gives survivors a goal/objective to complete might be interesting. Having some rounds be randomized where all the survivors turn out as CLF seems to do good some at times. The thing I hate most about survivors is you feel like you’re fucking people over as a XO when you don’t immediately launch the drop ships down at the 00:20 mark. Every single Greg Lauffer briefing you have people talking in LOOC: “rip survivors” which is honestly a strange state of affairs.
At the end of the day survivor is just another role no less or more important than Maintenance Tech. Maybe the devs feel it’s in a perfectly fine position after the whole LZ gas cloud update?
The amount of times as survs we have held out a good amount of time only to fold in the last moments and it turns out there’s a locker/tarp hiding surv is infuriating. All hiding does it screw over the other survs. You saw this a lot on chances claim when they cut off the south tunnels before the sentries and extra metal was added because folks get like they had no chance otherwise.
For the fighting aspect besides the initial drone meta rushing the hold spots or melting anything useful in he first 60 seconds of a round the hold aspect of surv works pretty well. You get a kill or two. A surv might get capped and some survs get recovered to tell the tale. Gives the CL something to do and the survs something to bond over.
I don’t know how you’d make fighting survs more fun as a xeno, survs need fire to be able to hold at all in most occasions, some maps like trijent dam are reduced to get molotovs or get fucked unless your UPP as your only guns there are HG shotguns and spearheads.
Side objectives are nice and all but once the meta shakes out it’ll be meta’d by drones and the queen will build walls around it and we’ll be back to holding the surv fob with molotovs or dying without them. It’s a CM issue more than a surv one where you don’t buy yourself a lot of time fighting xenos since if you try and chase your putting yourself at a huge risk where endurance 2 just doesn’t cut it so you don’t chase and the xeno is fully healed in 10 seconds. So you sit behind the cades or build walls dish out some fire and call it a day. It’s there is left that actually works.
CLF surv is just prison RP if you do make it out (after only killing a private)
And for every other survivor, its just
Get processed
Interrogated/questioned by MPs (Only if competent ones are on)
Then get questioned again by the CL (Depending on the map)
Then either deploy down or RP on the almayer, which rarely anyone does
Instead of a CLF surv, how about there is a…lets say 1 in 5-6 survs is a foreign-faction survivor, of course not many factions are available other than W-Y employees, USCM recruiter on solaris and sometimes UPP survs on trijent.
I find that way better than CLF survs, since its just “Gun down a random private then get manhandled by the firepower superiority of marines, then spend the entire round doing prison RP with little to no chances of making it out”
TLDR; survivor is only exciting before marines touch ground, when they do, you’re simply a PFC+
as it stands right now most of the critical points have already been brought up.
survivors are boring to fight as/fight against out of necessity, in some cases like NV island hold the sheer prospect of how annoying it will be to deal with them is what keeps survs alive.
this is a hard to fix byproduct, as in the case where the whole hive of 20-30 xenos in some cases engages with the 5-6 survs plus synth if you are lucky then… well you do the math. so making them super fun to fight an bully is… tricky.
in most cases your highest survival rate comes from the most cheesy tactics or just plain hiding in an invisble tarp in a random corner of the map, which imo is probably one of the worst things. no role should encurage 25 minutes of glorified afk and abandoning your fellows.
surv loot is a curious issue aswell as some maps are perfectly fine, they have metal, weapons, fun gimmick items, booze and ontop of that a good hold, soro comes to mind.
then other maps like trijent, well, i sure hope you are upp because that map is god damn barren.
it sounds like an easy, if time consuming, fix to make some small adjustments to the maps that are lacking.
lastly, on the topic of more varried survivors this gets a resounding yes from me.
survivor roleplay has been the single most fun thing i have experienced in this game so adding more variety sounds amazing.
my only issue with the current roles is the inability to pick exactly which surv you will be.
yes you can pick to be a sec survivor but does that make you a goon? a CMB? a peacekeeper? or maybe even a god damn prisoner?
some way to influence that would be neat to make it easier to play the character you want to be.
survivors were initally a badly designed role, they exist just as a sidequest for xenomorphs to kill or cap(or die to)
tarp hiding is cancer by the way, tarp should just be removed from colony spawns, survivors already have a billion spots to hide in if they want to cheese out their survival
I like to think of them as a warm-up or something for xenos to do so they aren’t bored out of their minds for 20-30 minutes (depending on what command is doing)
That is their role, they are weak, frail, any injury likely results in certain death and it is meant to be like that, surviving should be a miracle, it shouldnt be standard to live, it is the opposite for good reason, if you do live then you get all the RP you could ever want
Priority is for PFC marine and xeno fun and playability. Surv should be at best secondary, probably tertiary, I would argue quaternary subject to make “fun” and “playable”.
Currently just hide, pray that xenos who don’t AFK in hive don’t have a metabuddy observer and then jump out when marines are around so you can RP shipside. Not every colonist needed to fight to survive. Remember the original survivor, the one from Hadley’s Hope? It is crystal clear Newt didn’t need to sit behind cades in a metaspot, chucking molotovs made out of vodka and paper, nor she didn’t need to roam the colony and PB nail the occasional runner.
The only thing i would change is the molotov fire. Because right now it feels like you are throwing actual molotovs (Leftover spirits mixed with diesel), while its litterary just 30-40% alcohol.
A lot of this thread uses the assumption that survivors are “boring to fight”. But they aren’t. They’re just dangerous/difficult to fight, and people are unnecessarily scared of dying roundstart as xeno. Fighting survs has been some of the most fun experiences I’ve had in this game, simply because of how risky and dangerous it is. One mistake on either side is a death.
It’s genuinely great practice too.
A lot of this thread uses the assumption that metarushing and counter-metarushing is bad. But play better then your enemies, theres not much more that can be said there. The items you want most are neutral objectives, and are not always gonna be yours to take, and that’s fine.
You should be punishable for going for the “free” OP items as survivor, or walking the most predictable paths.
A lot of this thread uses the assumption that losing w/o a fair chance of winning is bad. But no, survivors are simply going to die most of the time. It is a quick role… you take it, and die or kill a few xenos… That is how survivor is intended to be played, and how it is truly played. You are not meant to win, or lose, you are meant to enjoy the life you are given and hope for success… It is about using the tools you are given and making the most out of it, regardless of situation.
This gameplay loop is not fun for most people - nor meant to be fun for most people. But to the people that enjoy it, it can be some of the most enjoyable gameplay out there. It is like a coffee-break roguelike, you go in expecting to die, but you might get a high score or achieve something great every once in a while. And as you go on in time, you can get more consistent at completing it and avoiding the deaths of the past…
The roleplay aspect is imo a meme peddled as some “holy grail”, as it is only fun for a few rounds shipside. So you shouldn’t survive every round, or you’ll get sick of it real fast. The combat, teamwork, and “randomness/gambling” aspect is where the majority of the replayability of the role lives imo. Not to say roleplay isn’t good… but it isn’t the core of the role.
Overall, the fear of not being good enough or the fear of death should be a non-fear in your mind. Once the game is over, it’s simply over, and there is no point feeling pain over your loss, simply try to enjoy the game as it’s given to you, as you chose the role that will get combat early but die early.
You don’t have to rely on molotovs. You simply rush molotovs, because you know that it makes things easier and it’s one of the OP loot drops.
If molotovs got removed survs would naturally find something new to do, or some other way to adapt. I do agree though the molotov meta is incredibly annoying to fight. You can at least rush the liquor vendors as drone roundstart though, to counter it.
idk, trijent is probably one of, if not the the best surv map for cheese. (elevator, van, sentrys)
Use a smg and dodge tackle. Ace Kiefer strats. Survivor SMGs are so great against drones if they overextend. if you can’t kill them then you didn’t beat them.
Main issue is that no-one can agree on what survs should be.
Are they an RP heavy role, robusto protags that kill all who dare treat near them, or props that exist only to give xenos something to do in the first 20 minutes?
And they don’t actually fit into any of these entirely, you get survs who don’t care to RP, and only bother to frag, they are too weak on the majority of maps to actually kill a single xeno, and they are just painful to fight as xeno, to where I just don’t bother most of the time.
Personally, I want it to be an RP heavy role, as I mostly play CL survivor, and I would prefer if they were just locked away in a panic room until marines arrive, so I don’t have to AFK in a tarp for 30 minutes, or die at the 10 minute mark, because you didn’t get an engineer surv or a synth. But I doubt most people who play surv currently would like this either.
survs aren’t boring to fight // people are just scared, fighting survs is fun, danger is fun
metarushing isn’t bad //
items are neutral objectives, they are not always gonna be yours
you should be punishable for taking predictable paths
you should be punishable for trying to take “free” op items
you shouldn’t go into it thinking about win/loss. Survivors will simply die most of the time, and that’s fine.
The point of the role is to enjoy the life you are given
hope for success
use the tools you are given and make the most out of it, regardless of situation
danger is fun
tldr part 2
the gameplay is not for most people // but enjoyable for those who have taken the time to grow attached to it
it is not meant to be enjoyable for everyone. Making it more accessible is dangerous since many solutions detract from the role’s purpose and intended gameplay design.
The role has its target audience, which is players who want fast, tense, early combat, dangerous situations, not a lot of time investment, and limited availability of resources.
You are supposed to die. This makes success more rewarding.
As said before, enjoy the life given.
rp is not a “holy grail”. The role is primarily replayable due to the combat, teamwork, and “randomness/gambling” aspect. The rp might be good occasionally, but not replayable enough to justify being the core of the role.
So solutions that detract significantly from combat for the purpose of rp, should be looked at with scrutiny! Rp is currently only part of the role once you are shipside, which is just a bonus benefit for success, not the gameplay loop itself. Solutions that contribute to teamwork however, would be amazing for both rp and combat.
tldr tldr:
tldr^2
Overall, the fear of not being good enough or the fear of death should be a non-fear in your mind. Once the game is over, it’s simply over, and there is no point feeling pain over your loss, simply try to enjoy the game as it’s given to you, as you chose the role that will get combat early but die early.
Sure a 2 hour timer is bad… but just do other things while waiting, join xeno, or leave the computer perhaps. I think noone would complain about surv if there was no 2 hour death timer involved, and more people would enjoy it as intended.
tldr tldr tldr
just try to survive! that is why surv is fun
hard to condense my thoughts into the same size post as everyone else in thread because i want to show why i think this way about surv.
maybe i yapped a lil
I think survs are fine as what they are, so long as the gameplay loop is still enjoyable by a niche group of players. if changes do happen, it should encourage the fast-paced, risky, gameplay for both sides. I believe that is when surv is most enjoyable.
Lockerhiding and tarp hiding is actively avoiding the main part of surv and griefs your team tho imo…