just make basic brute/burn healing chems topical only so you cant drink it out of a potion flask, whitelists for containers is a nonsolution halfmeasure. Makes more sense for medics to apply chemically infused gauze to heal brute than magic star trek pills or whatever anyway.
3 Likes
only if medics get automenders
to apply this (automenders are basically Trauma Kits that applies chems instead)
Frankly i donât really have that much of issue with the idea of removing Unga FLASKs in of itself. my issue is that we should not be removing a symptom but instead going to the source. now i donât know how to code really but seem to be just blacklisting med chems for flasks would be much better solution.
No need to take away unga if take away the reason its so useful, fix the flask and you fix many of the issues people seem to have with unga goes away.
So what i am saying ALL OR NOTHING! if lads really going to go this way donât do dumb half measure like this, and fill it with passive aggressive jabs at unga users. I.E PR makes unga turn you bald = unskilled and or bad in common CM jargon.
3 Likes
Instead of forming a disgusting mixture, it should become copium in the flask.
screw copium, all my friends are huffing hopium
1 Like
what cder/xnomain got this put in?
5 Likes
He is right there. You need to get better glasses gramps.
3 Likes
so instead of getting 2 unga flasks for my helmet, I will get 1 brute/pain flask and 1 burn flask? eh, doesnt change much.
1 Like
Saw this coming when they nerfed injectors and made it so riflemen canât put medkits in their backpacks, nerfing flasks was the obvious next step. What it really comes down to is yet another storage space nerf to marines. Ok, you canât have an unga flask? Then make a few separate ones with less types of chemicals in there. Boom, problem solved except that weâve been given yet another hoop to jump through. This wonât solve anything and will likely lead to another nerf that makes the game more tedious.
8 Likes
I donât have a lot of good reasons to offer to keep unga but hereâs what Iâve got.
Positives for keeping unga
⢠Allows flasks to be useful. Marines have a reason to off each other flasks for an actual benefit so you get nice RP moments where folks actually care if you offer them a drink. If I offer someone sweet beer or even vodka in game theyâre not going to care most of the time. Iâve been able to use unga in some movies moments to get people on their feet.
⢠Space efficient. As some rolls like Comtech you already need to bring a lot of gear to do anything. From metal to tools, cells, ammo, weapon fixing kits and of course comrade sentry. It leaves very little room for much else especially fluff RP items so having a heal everything option is a godsend especially considering trico that should fill this role doesnât heal that all that much for what it is. On a side note itâd be real nice to have access to the same trico pill packets survs get. Long story short Unga makes my comtech life less miserable since I can just about fit everything into my backpack as it is.
⢠Skill expression(?) While everyone is very used to the classic unga recepie I do think thereâs something to be said about all the other different unga concoctions the doctors cook up on occasion. Iâve seen people put Dex/Dexplus in, Dylo has gone in a few times, I saw FE go in there atleast once and someone filled it with tram rather than oxy for a little while. Not sure if youâd call it skill expression but it is nice when playing doctor to keep a real nail on all the different pills you can make and deal with unga in whatever form you wanted to make. Generally itâs just fun for me to make, itâs just a shame when you DIDNâT have a handle on things everyone would start asking real goofy.
I do think thereâs a way to make unga balancewise fit even if it needs some number crunching. Itâd be a real shame to lose it since itâs been a part of CM for a long long time.
4 Likes
How about I add a thirst meter? Doesnât need to be a mechanical incentive to roleplay. I take a canteen and fill it with water when itâs a desert map.
Streets saying this is the definition of powergaming. It might be worth mentioning that we donât explicitly punish powergaming, and the reason we donât is because we rely on the ever vigilant maintainers to decide what is and isnât intended gameplay and to then mechanically disable things that we considering powergaming.
No, this is actually the opposite. Itâs circumventing intended medical processes for a quick instant use heal-all.
I hardly consider it a balance issue. The people that use Unga to save a little loadout space are not the people that would use that extra space to make a difference in the round. Itâs also not extraordinarily efficient either, itâs just, like I said, circumventing the intended way of doing things.
1 Like
Actually good idea. Thirst determined by the type of map would be interesting. Doesnât even have to have any real impact on the marine aside from them occasionally complaining in their chat that they are really parached.
2 Likes
If marines receive crippling speed debuffs from hunger then itâs only fair a marine should be knocked out for several seconds upon becoming dehydrated, before falling fully unconscious at max thirst 
Now the water bottles in MREs will finally have a purpose!!!
Thirst RP will save CM after the abominable act that was axing xo xoever xisters in xeno chat
4 Likes
the whole space efficient argument applies because ungas like to carry 2 main weapons, you can fit a lot of stuff with a mag pouch M41A and a pistol belt while having a whole backpack to use, you trade killing for stuff you need to stay effective long term, not like UBS already exists to make a mini shotgun
my idea for a medical rework would be to remove all magic healing chems except for research and trico, buff the stack size of oinment, gauze and kits while buffing oinment and gauze a lot, insane buff for the healing from synth graft and surgical line (i know synth would be busted asf and i dont care), reviving make CPR, defib makes it easier to revive and you have to do CPR once or twice to revive with it, you can revive people without the defib to keep people from going perma when no medic or med supplies but it will most likely result in him staying in perpetual crit without a medic, bring back that logi truck TM from a few months ago and make kits, gauze and oinment moved in crates like the flare and MRE crates, while making it not holdable in normal crates, ARSR would keep buying it for free in req, bring back the crewman role for it and make the ARC/tank increase the limit by 2, make injector pouch and pill packets only trico and tram, this way we make that first aid kit pouch actually usefull and kinda all you need to stay alive, fobbits without a medic in FOB can thank me later
2 Likes
IMO, the issue with removing unga is twofold:
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It causes more strain on medics. Now if you get hit by a slash, you either have to: A) use your injector that takes a long ass time, B) use 1 out of your 4 non-refillable pills, or C) pester a medic. On the front you wonât be able to easily resupply your own medical gear, so it makes sense to save it until you REALLY need it and beg a medic. Now while medics are trying to revive people theyâll have a chemline of marines all asking for pills. The usefulness of unga helps by letting marines heal minor damage, and still keep their injectors/pills for more urgent matters where they canât reach a medic, or the injury is too severe.
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It hurts the frontline. Marines, understandably, donât want to push if injured; and unga helps to keep them on the front. Removing unga would make each hit from a xeno more devastating, and even a single acid spit could cause people to fall back and treat it. This leads to less pushes from the marine force and in turn, more FOB defenses. Imagine if xenos couldnât heal on weeds and had to run back to the XOB or a healer drone. Marines would easily overpower them as they try to keep themselves healthy enough to front on the frontline.
Tl;dr grug think unga good for marines and good for game as whole. *warcry
5 Likes
Removing UNGA is unlikely to cause more or less strain on the Corpsman. People will just adapt and use auto injectors, pill pouches, or whatever flavor of the month new strategy people figure out.
A single Tricordrazine and Tramadol autoinjector is going to perform a similar function as UNGA.
The outcome to this change will simply be people adapting their load outs to accept autoinjectors or pill packets.
Long terms, I suspect this change will be helpful for the âmythicalâ medical overhaul, as it better standardizes how marines interact with the medical system.
2 Likes
I disagree. Once people run out of injectors/pills more often since they canât use unga, medics will get a lot more people asking for meds for minor injuries. Which leads to medics running out of supplies faster. The underlying cause of this is simply because of how many uses injectors have.
In your claim about a tricord+tramadol injector doing the same thing, itâs true the injector can help keep marines in the front thanks to tricord healing all damage, but the real benefit of unga over pills and injectors are its number of uses:
Letâs say for example you decide to deploy with pills, injectors, and unga for frontline duty.
You take 10-15 brute damage because pvt bald shot you by mistake. You can use:
- a healing and pain injector and use up one of their 3 charges
- a pill for healing and pain, and permanently be down one
- sip unga
Youâd want to sip unga and use the injectors for more critical injuries.
If you replaced unga with tricord+tramadol, youâd just be stuck with using a charge for each injector. Those charges are hard to refill, especially on the frontline. So itâs either invest in the heal, or beg a medic and save your supplies.
The beauty of unga is how many times you can use a small heal, and not need to use a third of the canteen on one heal.
Once this envisioned medical rework is more than just an idea, maybe things would be different. But until then I think removing unga is just hard nerfing marines for no reason
3 Likes
I think PvE has water (or some other chem in dispensed canteens) that replenishes a bit of blood. Which makes sense, if you bleed a lot, you donât need to eat stuff really, you need to drink water to dilute blood remaining.
Simple use for canteen that is balanced, but not necessary.
That is what I think is more, or less perfect direction for marine healing.
- You can apply gauze, which lets limb regenerate a bit of health.
2 Likes
I donât think this overall point about âunga having more usesâ really applies overall. I believe Steelpoint is correct. People will adapt to simply use injectors, medics wonât really see more strain. Whenever I donât use unga, I just carry injectors or an autoinjector pouch, and itâs pretty much fine. Yes, itâs worse. Yes, I wish Iâd had unga instead. But do I visit the medic more often? Not really. It just degrades my combat performance a bit, rather than make medics work noticably harder.
The thing about injectors is that they are well⌠infinite. Unga is also âinfiniteâ if medical can be assed to make it, but letâs be real, half the time you end up consuming it all and become unable to find a refill.
Injectors on the other hand, are ridiculously abundant. Oh, you ran out? Find any medvendor and instantly refill. Go to FOB. Guaranteed refill. People arenât going to be running around the frontline with 0 injector charges left, theyâre going to go back, refill and be back in action (this is also why the pill packet pouch sucks dick). While the guy with unga might have an overall combat advantage, the guy without unga is still more than capable of healing themselves- Just at a slower rate. As long as I have chems in me, whether it be MBKDTricO or BKTram, Iâm not going to see a medic because my health will regen to 100 anyways.
In my experience, this means that people with or without unga tend to visit medics at roughly the same frequency. I do not expect medics to be overwhelmed simply because unga vanishes.
The reason why unga is so good isnât so much to do with reducing medical strain as it is offering a significant combat advantage for marines against xenomorphs. This combat advantage offers marines stim-like levels of regeneration + top tier painkilling at very little cost, while being superior to injectors for all combat purposes. Itâs essentially like the HEAP ammo of medications.
The biggest contributing factor that leads me to agree with @Steelpoint is that this âno-ungaâ effect already occurs regularly in CM. There are ALREADY LOTS of rounds where unga isnât even produced at all (mostly because marines rioted too hard, or the CMO was griefing being HRP), and itâs not like medics are suddenly swamped with some horrifying collapse in the medical system.
If what people in this thread claim is true, then we should be seeing a significant, noticable spike in casualties for marines to the point where it is noticable to medics. I have played many of these rounds as a medic, and frankly, I have NOT seen this effect occur.
The rounds play out pretty much the same (albeit with psychological damage for anyone unfortunate enough to take empty flasks instead of injectors).
Letâs say that a hypothetical PR kills the ability to drink chemicals somehow (perhaps according to Yrsaâs suggestion). Then, every round would essentially be one of these no-unga rounds we already see. Would we see medics getting assfucked noticably? Would medic mains be praying for the return of unga due to the increased medical strain?
No. We wouldnât. I donât even notice the lack of unga as medic during these rounds. I just defib and med whoever, buckshot a runner or two and move on. Factors such as medic competency, the pyroâs knowledge of preventing 700 burn with their extinguisher, and shitty masscas OBs are far, far more impactful than the mere disappearance of unga. If ungaless rounds are already this unnoticable for medics right now, why on earth would it be noticable if it became the norm?
This is why I donât see how the âIf you remove unga, medics will be under even MORE STRESS!â argument holds up in reality. Iâm more stressed by CPL McRib setting 4 people on fire with WP than by the removal of unga.
5 Likes