It’s crazy to me how you are so antagonizing on the forum in general, first (from what I’ve seen) in the Research civvie forum and then now.
Everyone is trying to speak normally and state their opinions in some form of civility and not outright what I can only assume “shitting” on previous COs, especially when you say that Windhealer or I assume Juro didn’t have a personality or didn’t shape the game in their image, in a good or bad way.
Plus a lot of people state there are issues to the whitelist and are not “PFC coping or nostalgia” a generalization which first is not true and second undermining the people’s opinions with the name calling.
And some even state a solution, like @ihatethisengine but you seem to purposefully ignore that and call this a “””””issue”””” which I can only assume means that you think the whitelist now is perfectly fine, which in my opinion and most others, isn’t.
So true, I do get very vocal when I read that the current whitelist produces lesser COs that don’t have as much personality as XOs.
I never said Juro and Windhealer had no personality. I brought up that an accent or behaving like a tribal aren’t personalities, there’s much more to it than that, albeit PFCs dont care about that, they need flashy stuff immediately visible to them to even consider the CO is an actual person since most of them wont ever talk to the CO. People aren’t that different and memorable IRL. COs like Windhealer, Carson and Juro were gems in their own way and a one time occurence.
Most Marines dont interact much with COs and that’s alright. They’re not gonna known them as well as the command staff for example. To use that as empirical evidence to say that because I didn’t get to know the CO while playing as a squad role (or because I didn’t bother talking to them more than two minutes), the CO has no personality, is actually bad faith. There’s also nothing wrong with CO = XO for most players because they fill an almost identical niche.
I’m not gonna single out anyone here but it’s always the same half dozen players that give everybody else the impression the whitelist is collapsing on itself like a dying star. Gets old fast and does not represent the playerbase, which anyway will never express itself.
Also sure, I’m always open to new ideas, do hit me up in DMs if you have any worth considering. Give more leeway, role-playing freedom and player control to COs though is not concrete stuff, we can’t do anything with that. Let them modify SOP more, why not. Except the restrictions currently in place are not arbitrary, they were put in place because of past incidents and because SOP is inherently tied to game balance. I don’t know what’s up with this “make the whitelist harder to lose for minor stuff”, that’s already the case, people don’t just get dewhitelisted for a single minor oopsie. And I think that’s all the solutions that were suggested to resolve our supposed issue.
Sorry for skipping the “what do you get besides protag gun” and “what is the CO WL” but I don’t think it’s worth reacting upon.
It’s kinda your job to find solutions to the problems players express concerns of, but you already pointed out that most players don’t care (which is true) and so this is why all of this is dismissable. But I am gonna act in good faith and propose more concrete solutions if you wish.
What would I do if I was a councilor/senator? First of all, I’d make an announcement that we from now on we are completely welcome initiative. Do what you want, as long as you not actively trying to grief. Experiment, look for new ways to interact with marines and convey the round as you pleased.
Next I would introduce a new deWL system. Warnings should expire and their expiration date should be always known, not arbitrary. Warnings cannot escalate to deWL consequently. You cannot just get several warnings from things you’ve done in the past, so only things that you’ve done after the warning counts towards escalation. Escalation probably still should be like “warning → heavy warning → deWL” and this system should be as transparent as possible. Of course something excessive might lead to instant deWL, but this should be something really bad, not just some LRP instance.
I don’t know how exactly you should change SOP, this is surely a difficult topic. But I don’t think changing SOP to never repeat one bad situation in ten thousand rounds is a good idea. I really believe council oversells “the incidents” that happened in the past which ultimately led to basically conservation of WL. Not in the sense of not letting new players, but in a sense of avoiding risks at any cost. If you want something interesting, you have to take risks. Also, minor tangent, all discontent about “the incidents”, all hate towards Windhealer/Juro also comes not from “the playerbase, which anyway will never express itself”, so this is worth thinking about.
Anyway, first of all you’d need to change the direction and actually answer the question “what is CO and what do we want from this role?” Which leads me to next topic.
Is it so hard for a councilor to describe what’s the purpose of the CO WL in their interpretation? I really don’t understand why couldn’t you answer. This is not a provocative question, and I kinda can predict the answer. I assume that the current purpose of CO is to preserve enjoyment of the game for others, thus why we have to severely limit their powers, so they cannot affect the game to much, so they cannot ruin the game for others. If this is the case, I already described why do I think this is a bad way to do things. But of course, I cannot argue against your view if you refuse to express your view.
If you think that personality can only be expressed through dialogue, then this is a very simplified way of describing personality.
Council has only ever been granting COs more leeway and powers in recent history, as part of an active policy we’ve set. So this is already more or less a thing (though not as extreme as you picture it here.)
A Warning has a set duration which everyone can look up on the wiki (2 months), with a Heavy Warn being 4 months. If someone is unsure, they can literally just… talk to us? And ask? Non-issue.
I don’t even understand what this means. So if somebody repeatedly incurs infractions worthy of warnings, they won’t (eventually) get de-whitelisted or…? Cause right now it would mean that the 2nd time you get a Heavy Warn, and the third or fourth, you might get dewhitelisted for it as part of escalation.
This is not a system that’s going to change tbh. It’s perfectly workable.
Buzzword to me, tbh. Literally what does this even mean? 80% of times the Council issues a warn or other whitelist sanction on a player report here on the forums, which ANYONE can look at. The other times, it’s a private investigation without a corresponding report (like Staff raising something to our attention).
Whitelist Punishments are not something we’re going to ‘make public/transparent’ for everyone to look into at will, for the same reason that Staff don’t make people’s notes public (anymore). It is quite literally none of your business why somebody got a warn/dewl/blacklist.
I’m really not sure what drove home to you that Council dewhitelists people for LRP. When has this happened? This sounds a lot like badmouthing the Council and our Policy without actually having a precedent to work off of. The CO Council has never de-whitelisted people for LRP, at least not in any recent memory that I can actively recall.
CO is multiple things: From a leadership figure that Marines can look up to, to a stabilising force of capable, vetted individuals who can ensure the operation proceeds smoothly (thus ensuring the enjoyment of most ordinary players), all the way to helping immerse players in the atmosphere and environment of the game via RP.
That’s by no means an exhaustive list, and CO can mean different things to different people, and that’s totally fine.
That is quite literally not what Gysilian said and is a strawman.
I AM BHAALS CHOSEN, I WILL BRING MURDER AND AGONY TO THE SWORD COAST AND SEE MY FATHER’S EVIL BLOODSOAKED WILL REALISED IN IT’S HIDEOUS GLORY, AS IS MY DESTINY…
Honestly as a CO that dabbled in silly gimmick strategies a few times and decided against it, It’s really not the council’s fault.
It’s mostly a case of not wanting to put the energy into a funny plan involving echo after only a single Marine bothered showing up to the CIC or getting exhausted with Deadchat telling me to kill myself because I tried the other LZ on CC and then having LRC on discord pop up full of complaints. Why bother trying to organize an off-kilter round if it’s a 50/50 between Marines celebrating or damning me (based entirely on whether or not my dumb strategy actually wins)
You’re allowed to be salty at the CIC but the community is asking why funny gimmicks are dead and in the same breath ahelping to ask if split-drops are a mutiniable because they want to win their 140th round at LV-624.
I don’t think there’s any real tension between increasing the standards and keeping fun COs, but I 100% agree with you that the WL has been burdened by years of successive policy restraints. However, it is a process to loosen them and the council has made very large measurable changes to how much freedom COs have.
As for punishments I’m not sure why people are worried about getting dewled for doing silly strats or whatever. In fact since the council actively encourages innovation, I’m not aware of anyone scared to do something out of the box because of the council. What is, however, stopping people is what many others have said - the community. If you lose people will lose their minds at you, threaten to report you, demand your WL be taken away, tell you to kill yourself, etc all because you lost the 30th round of BR that day.
I think people are getting a little too heated in this thread because realistically we all want the same thing, the CO WL to be fucking awesome. The cult of personality COs are really a thing of the past, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be a little quirky or interesting as CO. Hopefully, the council continues to give more freedoms for CO. I’m my mind, COs should basically be able to do whatever they want and if it’s abused that’s what player reports and the council is for.
It’s funny how i am more remembered for “schizo gimmick” i had as XO that was long time ago than i am now. Makes you wonder about people. There were even several copypastas about me back then.
sooooo what happened to fun gimmick COs is that i had my co wl reomved cuz I bought engi tech in a medic tech meta world soooo the cabal brought me out back and shot me
