Experience wise? Can’t really quantify an hours requirement. There is no minimum hour requirement because people learn at wildly different rates. Some might master the basics of medical in 25 hours, while others might need 50 or 100. If you add a minimum, people will start applying at the minimum, even if they’re not competent enough.
There’s no requirement to get help with your application, but you’re told that it’s possible before making an application. It would perhaps be wise to move it somewhere more public, but it’s there.
im sure hour requirements arent adequate for synth, yea; word ranges for the app might be of use at least in the personality and story section.
i get both sides, i just think there’s like…different ways people are thinking about the application that maybe havent been considered before that this whole thread shed some light on; and maybe posting the extra mandatory parts upfront would be useful if not for anyone now, then to keep anyone making version 2 of this thread
Id argue discord is heavily required, people recognize you in a totally different way when they see you in the discord often and tie your name(s) to an OOC figure, then see you in game. It’s a different kind of neuron activated versus just “I see xyxyxy on the radio sometimes :)”
This is an every ss13 server thing, the amount of “metapriviledge” it gets you in round is immeasurable. I don’t say that like a critique, I believe it’s genuinely unavoidable because people will just treat you better and give you way more leeway with RP if they recognize you from the discord. This functions heavily into WL apps imo, I’d argue that the hours investment isn’t just in game, but also in the discord
I’d argue that creating special roles for people who’s only hobby is CM or don’t work so they invest 8 hours a day is extremely unhealthy and not a positive for the community.
Like yes, people are going to be angry when they have nothing else in their life but CM so they feel like they have to be the best at CM and recognized as the best through OOC channels. This is the nature of whitelists in ss13 servers in general, never the intention.
A reward to gatekeep people who have either been here applying for over the span of a year, or more often the case, a reward to people who invest 8 hours a day on a single hobby.
If someone finds themselves upset at this, they need to reflect on their self hatred for CM being their only hobby/putting an unhealthy amount of hours into it as opposed to being out with friends or other hobbies, not just show their ass and meme response to OP who is clearly upset.
“surely insulting every single person with a WL is the best way to make a point”
Nobody plays this game for 8 hours a day. Nobody is required to play CM to an obscene level to get a WL. I didn’t, and I’ve got two. I play because I enjoy it and I got WLs because I thought I would enjoy them too, which I have. I never grinded for a WL, I didn’t play obsessively, it just came naturally as a progression of what I was interested in in the server. I’m a casual player, I play when I’m not busy with studies or other things and I’m looking for entertainment. Generally, this is how it goes for other people with the WLs. It’s not a job, you don’t have to grind for it, once you get the WL you don’t even have to play it at all if you don’t want to. I’ve been playing since late November, and I got my pred WL in March and my synth WL in April.
I’ll tell you from a first hand account that these WLs are not gatekeepy. Every single councilor wants you to get the WL. They’re rooting for you, they’re on your team. The WL application process is not hard, it’s really easy. You can literally get your entire application pre-approved by asking for a review from the councilors, and that’s for every WL. And for synth and CO, you can ask people to observe your gameplay and tell you if you’re CO/Synth ready. Deciding not to make use of these avenues and just diving in head first is the most common way of applying, but it’s also why most WL applications are denied.
If you think that means I play straight from those times and not those are just the times when I might be playing rounds then you have poor reading comprehension
WLs are dumb. Yeah, I tried to apply for a Synth long time ago, like several years. Story was shit from what I remember.
However I find arguments for WL like: “We need players we can trust, so WL is required” are completly wrong. Timelock with seemingly ridiculous ammount of hours on roles that matter for currently WL role is good enough.
You want to tell me that guy who spent 200 hours on CM not as observer, with 50 hours of command and with good ban/note history is not somebody you can trust with CO role?
You want to tell me that guy who spent 400 hours on CM not as oberver with roles like medic, doctor, comtech and SO, with good ban/note history is not somebody you can trust with Synth role?
You want to tell me that guy who spent 600 hours on CM not as observer with good ban/note history is not somebody you can trust with Pred role?
It is not just “words” behind a player in that case. If a grieffer is so determined to grind those hours just to play one round of Synth/pred/co where he gets jobbanned on top of regular ban and pernament scar on his record, then with the ammount of effort he could just apply for a WL.
Like come on, if I (or somebody else) spent that much time on CM while maintaining good behaviour will just jump into a role to be a shitler? Yeah, that can happen, but is pretty much just as likely as bored WL-haves deciding to SD during marine brieffing.
That is why timelocks sidestep any pro-WL argument.
Prove that few hundred hours non-observer timelock wouldn’t do the same as WL does, without having to write shitty story they will never bother to use (synth/CO), shitty story you will never tell anyone but other WLs (pred) and getting “+1 guy ressurected my dead mother”, “-1 guy uses medical backpack”.
yes, instead of making server staff learn whitelist specific rules and constantly ban bad actors we have whitelists with councilors that handle roles with special rules
There is also in the following sentence of the same “I’m going to be trying to play at least 2 rounds of support a day for the duration my application is up.”
An average round is 1 hour 30 minutes or so, so that’s atleast 2 rounds for 7 days a week. 21 hours a week for the entirety of the whitelist being up for something that is “not grinding”.
If both rounds are 1 hour, that’s 14 hours a week, if both rounds are 2 hours, that’s 28 hours a week… if you only play weekdays, that’s still 15 hours a week.
Again, if you’re feeling like I’m trying to insult you for me quoting you directly, read my post
If people who aren’t whitelisted aren’t allowed to criticize the whitelist, and people who are whitelisted/councilors and criticize the whitelists are just jaded/never players or have left the WL, who can criticize whitelists?
I’m not sure why you seem to want to prove every WL holder is some no life degenerate so much. “try” means it’s a lot for me, which it was, and to be quite frank I didn’t play 2 rounds a day while it was up, for a lot of days I didn’t play at all.
You’re somebody who, lets face it, has never interacted with the WL process in a meaningful way. You’ve never submitted an application (to my knowledge), nor do you have a WL. This isn’t a bad thing, it just means that you’re not super experienced with how the process goes, from the outside or inside. If you wanted to get a WL you’d see that it’s really not that hard if you put some level of care into it. I find that it’s always people who never interact with the WL process or interact without care that rag on it so much. Nobody who applies with genuine effort and care, regardless of if they get denied or accepted, acts like this, because they understand it’s not the big scary demon you like to make it out to be.
What? You have constant stream of 400+ hours players with good note/ban history who are bad actors?
Nobody needs to learn anything more besides how to open a tab in browser with said rules.
Also, you can just use current system where admemes don’t do anything to players on specific timelocked (WL) roles (unless it is super, super obvious grieffing) and direct it into a forum, where report is made by other player, or staff themselfs.
Then the people who specialise in those specific rules will respond to a report like they already do.
I’m still waiting for arguments for whitelists and against timelock + good note/ban history.
I find it super interesting that it’s always whitelist rejects that are asking for arguments to defend the existence of whitelists. Take the L with grace and reapply or move on. Whitelists ain’t going anywhere and don’t need to be defended.
Amazing. Calling a dude that has yet to make a whitelist application a whitelist reject, then say you won’t defend yourself. Stellar move.
Edit: I find it super interesting that a Councillor of all things, immedietly starts calling the ones arguing against whitelists names, then say they don’t need to defend themselves.