I was think oh why not try heavy armor it is okay and will stop breaking bones and I now understand why light amor is meta, I got two hit by a warrior and it broke my foot, no warrior punch just melee, PLEASE BUFF HEAVY OR SOMETHING, that don’t mean Nerf everything else
heavy has 2 main reasons
you are slow like SUPER slow, like i wear this to stop breaking bones but all it does is let xenos run me down and give me the most disrespectful beat down breaking all my bones anyways, all it does is let you be slower so xenos can break your bones
it is just worst b12, their is a amor set that is just better in my eyes, your faster and with almost the same defence
the only reason i see it used is in Marines vs UPP/CLF/ERT
it is also just a noob trap
It is a armor that contradict its self by “making breaking bones more rare” but your too slow so the xenos will catch you breaking your bones more often
1 simple buff is to increase the Limbs armor more then it is or just a flat out - 10% to damage or something
I’ll put this in general as I dont think this counts as a Idea, tell me if im wrong
Anyways what are your thoughts on heavy armor is it yay or nay
Fracs are just based on chance, same with light armor, you can walk an entire game with light without getting fraced, or get fracced by tywo slashes in heavy. Game is pretty chance dependend when it comes to fracs, so its just the way of the world unfortunetly.
Id be all down for having a total brute damage threshhold for fracs, IE heavy would be like you need to be below x for frac chance, and inturn giving light armor a higher chance to get fracced, but really its kinda irrelevant all told.
Everything i positioning based, how you shoot and what you are shooting is nearly irrelevant compared to where you are shooting from, positioning is everything and speed makes that easier, good players will barely get hit because they have good positioning, and can get cover from others helping them, heavy is a bit of a noob trap yeah, but just because it makes positioning harder which inturn leaves you getting walked on when others can speedwalk away from you, or when that woyer grabs you a bit easier. Its flavor really more then anything, light is superior in every way.
ya heavy armor is kind of dumb just as Erawh pointed out everything is about positioning so the slow down on the heavy just trouble… that being said it has its niche if you are using Static Weapons like the M2C, HPR or M56D… and yes i see the HPR as being a static weapon as its mostly useless with out it on bipod.
Edit: know what i just checked the wiki and i retract my statemen about it being useful in the static weapons niche…bloody EOD armor does’t have better melee than the B12 and HAS worst bio… shit is just not worth it Bullet and bomb is only useful if your point manning and with your slow ass in EOD you sure as hell not point manning.
Edit:2
i was just being dumb misremembering just HOW bad the bio armor is on the EOD like really LIGHT ARMOR HAS BETTER BIO ARMOR THAN THE EOD.
No, it doesn’t have a niche. You don’t tank more slashes, or acid than you would in B12. M2C and HPR still require speed, especially M2C, the whole gimmick is to set it up fast, but you can’t fire for long.
Devs/whoever said that they don’t want to mess with kill times. EOD armor won’t be buffed to tank more slashes. EOD won’t be buffed to cover feet and/or hands and/or head.
EOD looks the coolest.
The only way forward is a rework.
In the past I talked with somebody about the idea of making Endurance kit when kits in PFC vendor were a thing.
Essentialy it was covering everything at the cost of speed and giving you endurance on top, but isn’t modular, so you can only wear heavy helmet, boots and gauntlents only with heavy armor.
I still do have sprites that I think are cool, but hell, I made them so I am biased.
Simply revive Endurance Kit armor. Make it a purchase from PFC vendor for 45 points, make it even slower than EOD armor, let it give marine wearing full set +1 endurance, let it tank a lot of slashes, but be vulnerable to acid, let it ressist pounces from front, give it the best shoulderlight out of all other armors.
Or something like that.
Tinker with the concept so that it is truly a new, but balanced playstyle, instead of slower and marginally better bullet sponge (non AP). Actuall true defensive, or slow, but decisive brute-force that requires stupid xenos, or cooperation with light armor marines to get any kills.
Yeah but do we really want an EVEN more defensive playstyle? Nearly everyone hates cadehugging, its the worst part of a game by far, also not to mention but a player with oxy and meds in them will tank slashes literally until they fall over dead, light armor or not, so having slightly more armor is kinda irrelevant with the current med situation we have going.
Armors in general are fine where they are, and trying to change them would just effect too much of the game overall, really we could use a bigger rework of more interactive systems, trying to bandaid buffing one armor type does not change the structure of how combat works, and having a very defensive armor type would just increase some parts of the less fun gameplay.
To choose from? Yes, a niche that few marines who like that playstyle could use. I can assure you that no robust marine would ever pick it more than once and not stick to light armor, as we all know speed is king in SS13.
Free caps. No med short of stims impacts xeno stun from disarms.
I don’t think even slower, but tankier armor will promote cadehugging. Might be the opposite, actually.
They aren’t. Light armor is the best, then it is B12. Picking anything else as PFC means you are either bald, or enjoy aesthetics more.
It wouldn’t be a bandaid, but a full rework, or not even a rework, but addition of another armor piece, leaving heavy in its sorry state.
And why you so sure it wouldn’t change the structure of how combat works? Not that it is supposed to, I envisioned it as a alternative playstyles, where armor complements it.
Right now it is you are either as fast as possible with some protection (light armor), or you are very slow with slightly more protection (heavy) and the middle ground with +1 storage space (medium). Then we have heavy, but better (B12) and medium but better (M4).
Slow marines acting like an anchor thanks to their armor and other marines with light armor running in front and back of them, combined warfare, cooperation and stuff like that.
Anybody who isn’t bald wouldn’t use tanky armor to cadehug. Cadehugging lets you bypass the need to rely on your armor, thus it is actually light armor marines who hide behind them to pounce at weakened xeno. Sure for the first week after it would be added you would have half of marine force in it, but that happens with everything.
Im obsessing over heavy armor and plates at this point, but you could introduce a rechargeable damage shield on it that’d simply block X damage every Y minutes (replace minutes with welding?).
Wouldn’t really break anything besides my immersion (im sure we could find a reason why it works that way, see welding above).
As for cadehugging and static gameplay armor isn’t the issue, bipods currently are the biggest one next to cade amounts/strength. Irrelevant.
so the real reality about why heavy armour can’t compare to light is that in ss13 speed is king. across all servers and all codebases those who can move the fastest especially those with ranged weapons will do the best
in cm even moreso because would you rather be hit and take some damage through your EOD heavy armour or be fast and take none? most pick the latter
A certain someone had this to say about limb protection and who is also responsible for the downfall of marine gameplay through removal of ez injectors/inventory nerfs/removal of the barrel charger/removal of nvgs and now into helmet.
Well he is kinda right with armorlinking. If you would just haphazardly add it, marines would get an extra 5-20% armor against attacks. Which is a giant buff to marines.
If you bring back armor linking you have to raise slash and ability damage across the table accordingly to keep similar TTK on light and medium armors. (this would also impact how easy it is to break chest though and possibly all other limbs) Its alot of busywork I think but if you feel like it then go ahead, otherwise just close it since morrow was right.
At the end of the day heavy armor also isn’t necessary and could simply be removed. It’s not like marines have to be walking tanks, like if I went and added a super extra heavy armor now you wouldn’t have to jump hoops to balance the whole game around it in the future, you could just… remove it.
No, you have the same speed as medium/B12, the only downside being one less storage slot
No, heavy is better. No, B12 won’t make you faster. No, defense stats of B12 are worse - it won’t save you from alpha PVT bursting your ass
I think heavy armor is in a good place rn. It fills it’s intended niche - a tanky frontline armor that can save from both crusher stomps and PVT bullets/nades, but if you want to buff EOD suit from “good” to “great” - sign me in, I’d love it
I’ve gone into this a number of times already, and to keep it short:
The vast majority of players are dying because of stuns - you get pounced on by a lurker for example. Heavy or light, you’ll be able to stand up after the pounce and fight back - light armor at a sliver above crit, and heavy armor like 30% above crit. Then the lurker pounces you a second time and its over.
Now consider how you avoid a lurker pouncing you: Not by tanking it, but by dodging it. In fact, all xeno abilities are countered by dodging and not tanking them. If the xeno ability lands it fucks you up.
And what does light armor have over heavy armor?
Mobility that lets you dodge attacks
A light armor and heavy armor user both die if they get hit, but the light armor user has a lower chance of getting hit to begin with.
I’ve argued for quite a while now that the way to make heavy armor protect people better, isn’t to make the player tankier - it’s to reduce how long they’re stunned for so they take less damage when they do get hit, and have more time to react when it happens.
Man, in my post you can see values pulled straight from the CM code.
EOD: SLOWDOWN_ARMOR_LOWHEAVY
B12 - Copied from medium armor: SLOWDOWN_ARMOR_MEDIUM
The downside is being slower and having less storage space. The upside is higher bomb and bullet protection. That is it compared to B12.
It won’t save you either if alpha PVT uses AP.
It is in a bad place, nobody but the biggest baldos who have no clue about its stats use (or those for style points). It is not in terrible place, it is not OP, marines aren’t forced to use it, so it remains a noob trap.
Niche you speak of doesn’t exist. It is not tanky. It can’t save you from both crusher stomps and PVT bullet/nades.
What should be done is to buff EOD frm “bad” to “average” at the very least.
Here is the last PR that did anything to heavy armor and got merged.
If B12 wasn’t available in PFC vendor, there would still be no reason to pick heavy (other than looks).
What good is upsetting stun-timer balance to still get your feet/hand cut/fractured in two slashes?
To dodge something you need space and time to do it.
Frankly that seem like a good idea to me at lest, it will make it some what useful and well being a fair trade off for the slow down.
i have been thinking about a fitting buff what if the EOD armor stopped or made it much harder to fracs in the chest and groin, OR OR maybe the EOD acted as split for the chest and groin if you do get a frac.
this will also make it quite useful as chest and groin fracs are really the most trouble to get as they can give you organ damage.
This will make the EOD armor worth wearing, that way you don’t have to leave the front line as the only real lasting damage will come from IB from limb fracs but that is much faster to treat and can be done by medics.
