Honestly I feel like more advance notice might help with this. Balance issues aside (of which there are many, but I digress), it felt like the poor communication from CIC and the overall confusion really put a damper on things on the Marine side. There was zero room for tactics. Maybe vetting and prepping a designated CIC team for this event would help eliminate confounding variables and give a clearer picture of how much strategic leeway the Marine forces have, as would doing away with the limited communication groundside.
Also feels like looking to Whiskey Outpost’s approach to attacker gameplay could help if we’re really going for a cinematic beach storming approach that doesn’t entirely live or die on the ratio of players on both sides. Make sure there’s an easy way to get back in the game immediately as an attacker during the beach phase, and I think you’ll get more interesting behavior and more player enjoyment.
I think it could stand to be reduced. I admit I had been using my bino’s to find targets and blindly fire in that direction. I assume that the UPP were doing the same also.
Its the same range as the M41A Mk2, so I personally don’t mind the range unless we could just make ALL ranges smaller. Because I’d hate for the marines to stand like 4-8 tiles away from my maximum range and I cannot even shoot back at them.
The only real change i would do is make both sandbags, and the FF cade take close to 90% of the bullets instead of 70%, and maybe up the damage resistance to bullets on them as well.
Edit: I think we could also use some inspiration from my favourite franchise Red Alert. Where UPP has the better raw stats, but the US has a lot more utility. Then you could make UPP a more CQC based, and marines rely on their Firesupport, MDs, (Maybe scopes) and specs.
please yes getting killed when you can’t see is bad…
the beach need also to be rework so that marine actually are point to building their fob into the caves on the side and actually make effort to be resistant from a counter push from UPP…
maybe also only make the side bunker CAS and mortar proof making center weaker is a good move i think since it’s harder for USCM to push…
i am kinda skeptic about the ability for UPP to retreat to second line if first is overrun…
overall 10* better than first round i tested…
as UPP equipping was kinda messy could use more vendors
why do we have three vendor with two vending special ammo?
proper squads would be nice to for UPP…
limiting range should stop most of the bad experience i had on HvH to be honest… so please do that first.
Suppressive is fine when it’s just a bit outside of view range. But when you’re on the other side of the map and you’re getting deleted from existance because some guy is firing in your general direction is not fun for either side.
That’s what suppressing fire is though - You can’t see the enemy, but you know their general position and while your shots are inaccurate, it’s still deadly enough to keep the enemy from moving around or shooting back safely or effectively.
The whole technical idea of suppressing fire is pinning an opposing infantry element down so they cannot shoot or move effectively while others flank or breach the defending position to eliminate it. If suppressing fire can’t kill, it can’t suppress. If you have to see the person to shoot them (or nearly so), you’re not suppressing anymore, you’re just killing them and you no longer need to consider flanking or breaching anything because it’s all become simply facerolling into things with numbers and winning through sheer attrition.
You could see the distinct effect suppressing fire had in the giant hallway round last night, with advancing marines shooting randomly towards UPP from 20 tiles away, the UPP whom lacked weight of fire (no IFF, fewer numbers) and cover were forced to fall back with bullets zipping around them until they reached actual cover, and then the suppressing fire situation reversed with UPP suppressing the forward marine elements despite having fewer numbers because of the relative safety of the cades removing the suppressing effect the marine firepower had - this then immediately slowed down the marine advance for awhile.
Then the situation reversed again as the number of marines slowly increased, which gave the weight of fire advantage back to marines who then once again suppressed defending UPP (all of this happening from mostly beyond LoS), preventing UPP from effectively killing people who were advancing up to the walls/cades, and then those people in the forward advance, no longer being gunned down so effectively, began destroying the walls/cades with grenades and more accurate direct fire on UPP hiding in the murderholes, which together crumbled the UPP defense again.
IMO if you remove being able to hit people from beyond LoS you’re actually going to kill HvH before it’s even started being a ‘thing’. The effects that offscreen damage have are a lot more complex than just “it sucks to experience” - and how much of that feedback is actually just “it sucks because it killed me” and not “it sucks because it’s not a useful nor interesting game mechanic”?
I think removing the ability to shoot and kill with inaccurate offscreen fire is gamifying out interesting mechanics, rather than letting emergent behaviours and consequences arise out of the initial conditions naturally, and will make HvH significantly less fun, not more.
My problem with it, is that it stops being suppressive fire when cover dosn’t actually exist in HvH. Because you may stand behind the best cover in the world, but it ONLY blocks 70% of the bullets. So if you shoot 10 bullets at a dude, then 3 of them will hit, and those three will either put you near crit, or if you are unlucky break whatever part hit (and this is just if you get neutral luck, and they ONLY shoot 10 bullets).
And the thing that is the most jarring, is that it sucks to have a firefight where you can even see the area of what you are shooting at. Its different from actual suppression, since you have a general target, and have friendlies who can follow up on it. In CM, you are effectivly shooting into the void, and hope you hit whatever is trying to shoot you. And it essentially turns into a firefight which is everyone shooting in dense fog, trying their best to hit whatever is on the other side.
Last one had same amounts of UPP and marines battling, but UPP had great defences and marines were left in open field
“Battle” math doesn’t sum up here: marines couldn’t win and they didn’t.
Simplest fix for UPP LMGs shredding everyone from 3 screens away would be removing binos from UPP specs. The same scope thing, just with extra step. (but that would make every UPP player cry for sure)
Second great issue - barricades not sustaining damage well enough, one ugraded against projectiles is falling apart in 30 seconds of aimed fire.
Thrid thing - SG’s max range is capped at 12, making them kind of CQC eqiuvalent. Even UPP grunt can outgun them (from outside of view range, ofc)
Summary: Do less UPP spawns due heavy fortifications, less binos for UPP due no falloff/ big max distance guns, buff SGs max range. Focus more on max distance balancing and falloff values
Also, why UPP’s heavy fortifications were SO complicated with edges? It looked you would need to somehow sprint for whole minute under heavy focused fire to reach front bunker wall. If fortifications were done to make marines that expendable, then round would need gazillion foxtrot calls
To be fair a lot of these HvH changes are still being tested.
We’re very much seeing some of the biggest and more comprehensive changes to HvH as a gamemode in years, it makes sense there are going to be some teething issues.
