56D nerf

General Discussion
1

Have to be 5+ tiles away from each other now

Please stop nerfing things with hardcoded mechanics like this and please stop hand holding things for xeno players just because they cannot think around a problem.

What exactly are marines supposed to be good at if they cannot even setup heavy firepower positions? The counter is Go Around or Gas It. If you charge into 3 56D’s, 2 sentries, and 15 marines. You should die. I’m not sorry. You do not pass go, you failed the IQ test. The maps are full of flanks, you have Gas + screech that makes a direct attack on 3 56D’s, 2 sentries, and 15 marines actually not even suicide at all anyway all you have to do is coordinate a little with your unjammable communications, constant map updates for everyone, and everyone-has-overwatch.

For that matter, NVG’s are STILL nerfed almost to being pointless to take because of the pain in the ass of recharging them manually at fob every 5 minutes instead of swapping a spare battery (and a PR to fix this was made and never merged WHY?), and we STILL have welder mask helmets that require 2-3 clicks to use instead of one click so I’m always using the goggles now because of how much a pain in the ass the helmets are.

Thank you for reading my rant

10 Likes
2

True, which beno cried about how unbalanced everything but their own side is this time? Still waiting for either fire support being deleted or marines being hardcode unable to get closer than two tiles to fellow marines cause “I stood directly below the OB cause the “OB incoming”-text is too small, totally unbalanced, instakilling benos without warning!!!” or “I got murderballed cause I didn’t feel like retreating together with everything else, totally unbalanced!!!”

3 Likes
3

Can we stop with piecemeal changes to mechanics and encourage a better vision of how something will work in totality?

Because I see no reason why this PR won’t be followed with more random changes to both the M56D and M2C.

If this were a marine sided version, it’d make it two Boilers can’t setup to fire their globs if they are standing within 7 tiles of each other. I don’t think this change is nessecary.

4

IFF makes it too easy to set up “heavy firepower positions”. Add SGs on top of the formula and you’ll get insane amount of firepower in a choke. “Flank them” you cannot always flank, sometimes you are cornered and cannot extend enough to flank. And even if you can, nothing stops marines from rotating 3 (actually they can get way more) M56Ds to counter the flank. You didn’t want the IFF rework, so now you are just getting nerfs. You already cannot stack sentries together, so it makes perfect sense that M56D gets same treatment.

Boiler is a T3 and T3 slots are limited. If you have many boilers, you don’t have other T3s. You don’t have enough frontliners. Meanwhile if you get M56D, you lose nothing, you get extra fire power that ignores front width. For example you have 14 marines in 7 tiles choke. If all 14 marines get M41A, only 7 of them would be able to shoot (in perfect conditions). If 7 of them get M56D instead, all marines would be able too shoot. It’s just not comparable.

Funny that you mentioned it right after major CAS buff got merged.

I mean M56D getting IFF was exactly a “piecemeal change”, so…

5

How often do we get 7 M56D’s being deployed?

Heck, by that logic we should restrict xenos to 1 T3 of each kind to match Marine Specialists. You only get more than 1 T3 if all T3 caste slots are filled.

6

Does it matter? Sometimes we do. The fact it’s possible is a problem on its own, but sometimes it happens.

By what logic? Xenos and marines are not the same, it’s called asymmetric balance. But anyway xenos don’t have anything on this scale for stacking IFF damage.

1 Like
7

You could argue stacking X boilers and firing at the same time is close to it.

Personally this feels like a niche case issue that is going to solve a very minor problem at the expense of causing a lot of annoying headaches for a majority of people a majority of the time.

If the issue is over-stacking of M56D’s perhaps its better to investigate the gun mechanics itself, or ammo availability, instead of adding weird mechanical nerfs about gun placement that just feels ham-fisted

How about making IFF fire mode have a reduced ROF or less AP? How about boosting non-IFF to have the more current ROF?

8

T3 slot is limited though when one dies it immediately gets topped up by another player.

But either way this PR is just hard cope. Hasn’t been an issue in the past, just use boiler gas and screech to counter it, plus m56ds are limited and requires a few steps to set it up.

If you ask me it’s easily countered by boilers.

1 Like
9

or just by uhhhhh… going around it lmao.

3 Likes
11

Does it matter? Sometimes we do. The fact it’s possible is a problem on its own

Bunching the guns isn’t a problem though:

There are tools for dealing with it - with all of the 56’s bunched up together they’re actually easier to glob with a single boiler shot (or trapper shot) so it’s a risk/reward measure in that respect. Praetorians can directly yoink you right off the guns, and crushers can zoom in and smoosh them flat in a split second. Queen screech also stuns everyone off them, and since the guns tend to be more backline, they’re also more open to runner/lurker attacks, and once destroyed they can’t even be repaired without plasteel rods, and the limited ammo heavily restricts how long they can be active without resupply.

From a strategy point of view you can soft counter 56’s by just rotating the front around so much there’s not enough time to put them to good use.

I don’t understand how you can have this many direct and indirect counters to a weapon and STILL not be satisfied.

2 Likes
12

I think this is just an opinion debate on whether or not it’s good for the game.

The way i see it, deathbunching MGs together can encourage fun teamwork (it encourages uniting the users of the gun), but it also poisons the gameplay by being too powerful, annoying to fight, etc. Adding IFF to a mg and stacking it 5 times is not interesting or fun gameplay. Just like stacking warriors on the xeno side, or stacking boilers on the xeno side.

The benefit of fun teamwork in stacking iff, is overshadowed by the fact, the gun itself existing is a beacon of teamwork. It doesn’t need the cheese tactic to exist, if you look at it from that perspective. So it’s got too little benefits for its downsides.

This also encourages m56d users to focus more about their positioning, which front they are helping, and what they are achieving while supporting the front. I genuinely think that’s just as engaging as stacking iff death walls either way.

Besides, you don’t need to stack the gun in order for it to be effective. Just swap to mk2 and support your m56d user instead of abusing iff. You can even hold a static position with a mk2, just like a m56d user. Same food, different ingredients, better flavor.

I do agree though, it’s not a change that exists to bring a overall better vision of the gun to the game. That’s not the intent of the pr tho.

Nor does it seem like a good long-term solution to the problem. Noone likes barriers in their gameplay that are basically invisible, that’s just bad gamefeel. I think it’d be fine if it had a bubblechat popup of “This gun is too close to another m56d!”. 5 tiles is also a bit too much (that’s like screen width)… the problem is probably when it gets to like, 2 or 3 m56ds right next to eachother. 2 to 3 tiles is probably better… Or a different, less hacky solution.

So idk. Even 2 m56ds next to eachother is a bit much.

1 Like
13

I just don’t find it too powerful or annoying to fight

There are so many options available to deal with them I can’t ever view it as an actual issue. It really feels 100% like people upset they’re dying trying to charge through a massed, defended, fortified marine position without using any of the available counterplays and going “wow thats SO overpowered time to nerf it”.

Like… what else are you expecting to happen???

1 Like
14

dvdvfb

15

1 glob of boiler gas later and they all have to ditch the guns

and imagine if queen came up from the south behind that turret

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16

As Wintermote states, a single Boiler and all those guns are dead and acided, it just requires a level of coordination from the xenomorphs to pull off, which Xenos have far easier tools to coordinate than Marines do.

This feels like a non-issue.

17

M56d spam is the most brainless and easy to do thing imaginable. It’s incredibly oppressive and you’re not always in a spot to be able to deal with it. The arguments for its continued existence is the same arguments people used when the m56d had an exploit that all of the users were using to allow you to fire it as fast as you could click. In other words, it’s still unfun to play against and IFF spam should go BYE BYE.

2 Likes
18

Agreed. Arguing that X is unbalanced because of a niche case (i.e. stacking 7 M56Ds on a choke which xenos have no way to escape from and 0 tunnels in the hive to GTFO) is a rather shitty argument imo. First off, if your queen put your hive in such a shitty location with no escape routes, with zero tunnels or boilers AND letting M56Ds on ONE choke end the round, then you were going to lose anyways.
We should be considering how it works in general. Most rounds do NOT have this niche problem. Most rounds will have maybe 1-2 M56Ds covering one choke, where xenos can easily flank around, or use boiler gas, or a queen screeches and then murders everyone, etc.
If people want to push a reinforced position and then complain about not being to able to breakthrough with raw strength while ignoring the option to simply… go around it, tunnel out, suppress with scree/gas or let the enemy push instead… It’s called copium.

6 Likes
19

I saw all four SGs roam as a stack for superior firepower yesterday, should we nerf this too? Lol.

2 Likes
20

From somebody who plays marine and xeno about equally, neither M2C or M56D seem OP. Yes they are powerful and they do manage to crit me when I am about to get behind cover so I get obliterated and then called a dipshit by prime empress after death, but I haven’t really noticed them being OP. They are only good when you have a deathball around you so a vamp doesnt just run up and obliterate you, or when you are defending cades. The only thing perhaps is maybe make them take a bit longer to deploy.

21

queen screeched and boiler then gased me, there was nothing I could do, pls nerf, there always must be something I can do

5 Likes