Good….. Now hit enter…..
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Under Duress does not count!
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Dude. Thats literally just charlie even pre-ASS. you can remove the testmerge and say “charlie hold comms” for the whole round and they will hold it
What is literally the difference?
Also “7 people whos contribution is meaningful” nah you just wasted manpower doing fuck nothing when a sole engineer with a flamer sentry + reinforced walls can achieve in comms holding it alone.
“Flanked the queen and it succeeded” yeah good for you. I just led 10+ people in southeast caves big red and instanly got deleted by queen screech in lowpop playing like ASS as alpha (i was SL) (we actually RPed, followed CIC orders) after delta (who didnt follow ordersand went to bars) got deleted by queen rush too.
The whole weakness of ASS is fragmenting charlie into 3 when one squad can even barely hold against the queen rush with the queen delete button.
As long as that it isnt addressed then what ASS is trying to achieve wont happen because people will naturally tryhard (CIC) to just bring you to the front after alpha/delta gets wiped.
Tl;dr more queen screech salt, how fragmenting the whole marine force is not viable in the meta
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zero evidence that suggests this is true at a fundamental level in practice btw
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You can even pull logs of the round in where i played as alpha SL and actually communicated what we were gonna do to CIC after weve done our initial orders.
That round we actually acted almost full autonomous just like what ASS was trying to achieve. We actually played competently(clearing weeds, walls, maintained cohesion) until queen decided that funs over and deletes my squad too after they deleted delta and some of the kilo in the front.
Dont get me wrong. I dont hate ASS but at least acknowledge that one squad against the whole queen force and queen screech cant hold against it.
Anyways tired of this back and forth discussiom. Im just gonna wait what happens.
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why not give them the tools now instead of pushing the rework as is? so the squads can develop their identity with the tools as opposed to not? like the biggest issue with the squad rework is the lack of specialization in the “”“”““special””“”“” squads.
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are we fr here, I just explained why - the specializations come after the culture of the squads, because Bravo wasn’t always a fobbit squad, that just became a thing from culture. Just like how Charlie became the comms squad.
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charlie still exists, you can play it. Here, let me show you how.
Step one, join a round and you will see this screen.
Step two, you will need to click the “Set up character” button.
There you will see your character sheet of your respective Charlie HM Femstatic
Then you will need to select Squad Priority here
After that you will get this tab
There you can raise or lower your squad priority of the squad you want to join with these buttons
The down arrow will decrease the priority, while the up arrow will increase it.
As you can see here, my squad priority is already set to my prefernce
(an example of a changed squad priority, i have set charlie to the lowest priority here)
If you would like to be in a big squad, with big number and wordlessly die, I may suggest you look into Alpha and Delta squads - as they are the squads intentionally made for such desires.
here is an example of squad priority of someone who’d prefer that sort of gameplay.
As you can see here, with this system, charlie still exists and can be played. Therefore, charlie is not gutted - simply adapted to a new system. In fact it is a buff for charlie, as it now enforces greater squad cohesion, role-play, and ups the quality game play you’ll experience while in charlie. as now with a smaller squad - you will experience a squad that can more easily banter with each other rather than sent to the front lines to wordlessly die.
Rather than salt to game devs actively improving the game in a salt thread , making changes to things that are improving the game 100%. And if your only reason for playing the game is because your silly little sprite is purple, then I suggest you find a new game - as it is clear that the color, and idealized imaged of what charlie is is in your brain is wthat you are attached to and that you’re no longer having actual fun with the game. If it is the people, well those people are still playing, they are just in a different squad - and here’s the thing, that you can do with your friends - you can talk to them and plan out before a round of playing the same squad together, so you can still play with your friends in the same squad just a different color ( which I know is hard for some people)
If you have genuine concerns with the development of ass, and want to improve the system. You can do so here. Which is made and designed so devs can hear feedback on their changes in an active and productive way. It is also anonymous so your ‘hot take’ wont be shat on by other players.
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nobody is saying charlie doesn’t exist, we’re saying charlie is worse, just worse to play with no upsides. I would really like it if charlie could be made into an assault squad like it used to be so that the people who like charlie squad can play it without just hamstringing themselves for no upside.
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Refer to post.
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ASS is an inevitable addition to the game, and overall its probably a good thing for CM. Those are my general thoughts on it. But Westrover, I don’t get why you keep trying to lowkey gaslight people into believing ASS is a purely good thing for Charlie, and that everyone else simply doesn’t “get it” and are some kind of backwards thinker who hate progress and the maintenance team.
People have their opinions and thoughts on Charlie being neutered, and whilst some is exaggerated, there are still valid points. Charlie is simply much smaller and less powerful than it was before, and you simply wont be getting the same experience you bad before. Charlie was on comms… for the first 5 minutes on most rounds, then it transitioned into an assault squad similar to Alpha and Delta.
The fact that the auxillary squads have more compact cohesion and better roleplay is general is fine and dandy, but if you waht that, Kilo and Oscar exist. People dont want Charlie to become Kilo or Oscar, they want it to stay as-is and maintain its current gameplay experience. The fact that it now has “better roleplay like O/K and xyz” is missing the point.
Is Charlie eating dirt the end of the world? No, in the end most people will just play in A/D or K/O. Does this mean we should just start kowtowing? No, people still dont like Charlie being crippled. You can like ASS in general and also dislike how Charlie gets sidelined. Both can be true, and I dont believe you’re necessarily being constructive or maling much of a point by handwaving other users and saying “well ok, but this is how you should actually feel”.
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i’m not really trying to gaslight here, I do have problems with ASS and how it handles charlie, but I am also aware its in its testing phase, and a lot of the problems will be resolve as times goes on. Nothing is perfect.
Here are some of the issues I have with A.S.S,
1, A.S.S’s biggest crutch rn, is that it is a new shiny toy to play with - over time, a meta will be found and the same thing that happened to legacy squads will likely take a new form, if it will be a improvement or not, will be seen.
2. The squads new colors blur together to me, and I confuse oscar and kilo repeatedly. Could be just a me issue - but it’s something that is being worked on.
3. While Charlie is ‘gutted’ as many people think it is, the real problem with why people feel gutted - is because these squads do not have much to compensate lower numbers and so you get that feeling - but, there are plans to give charlie, kilo and oscar more equipment, to make them stronger.
4. It is a mess to XO sometimes, and requires a higher skill floor for CIC to pull off effectively. Which will scare off a lot of New XO’s who do not know how to adjust.
I am not gaslighting, I am not saying people SHOULD feel x y z, my slop post was made because discussions that boil down to “i dont like it” are simply unproductive. As you said, it was inevitable a change like this would happen. I am not saying you should like it, I am saying you should adjust to it and give it a chance it is still new. It has higher potential to improve the game, than to burn it down. And hell if you still don’t like it then PR feedback about changes can encourage more productive discussions about changes to it to improve it as a system.
I am just tired of seeing people shit on the devs of the game 24/7 with very unproductive discussions when it is still a new system that hasn’t even left its honeymoon phase where the real problems will become prevalent.
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I think changes are only inevitable when we as a community choose to make them inevitable. For years and years charlie was an assault squad, until we CHOSE to not makthem one anymore. Saying that there will be changes coming later to not make charlie a worse experience for the people who actually play it is cold comfort when we could just let it continue to be an assault squad and give it changes just like alpha and delta instead of like kilo and oscar.
At the end of the day every change is arbitrary and not all change is good change. ASS is not inevitable or the only way “forwards”, it is a potential change that we can choose or not choose as serves the needs of the playerbase.
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i’ve given my actual useful feedback on the stuff in PR feedback so far and accept this PR as inevitable but distinctively don’t like it. i feel like that’s an okay thing to say…i’ve been productive elsewhere, i appreciate the work devs put into this game, i’ve dev’d for ss13 before… in my heart of hearts, i know that i still won’t like this change; i can adapt and do whatever but i’m always going to remember playing on legacy squads and go “oh, i miss that”.
playing SG on the MEGATEAMS lacks a je ne sais quoi that playing on Bravo and Charlie did. i mean, “je ne sais quoi” is what “““culture””” is, i think it’s fair to say i miss my team and being a part of my team and that other squads don’t play the way my team does because of cultural differences. i think it’s fair to say some people are being removed from those squad cultures (C/B specs and SGs, obviously; and maybe C Everybodies as a de-facto assault team when comms are done, i dont play rfn on C). the solution is to join A/D to still fulfill the role but that’s a different culture and it inevitably means some people will be grumpy. i don’t think anyone has to lie to themselves that that’s not something that will happen, and it’s not something everyone will accept wholeheartedly with love. but that’s neither here nor there.
90% of forum threads are useless in a world where they’re supposed to 1:1 equate to some sort of systematic change, as is this one; but if forum threads aren’t that (spoiler alert…), then i think people can be angry in their internet diary entry and get their catharsis.
edit: obligatory i started as Delta and i don’t enjoy it anymore hence i moved out of that and now i have to go back to play SG.
alfa still sucks, the alfa cabal took away my middle finger emoji because they suck so much
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had a round on charlie earlier today, 6 total marines, once we landed I (FTL) and SL tried to stay together, every single other marine wordlessly fucked off to the front, leaving us a squad of 2. I think we died not long after.
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The big takeaway here is that there seem to be really no objective reason why there has to be exactly 3 “support” squads and 2 “assault”. Removing Charlie caused all the unnecessary backlash, but keeping them as a “Support” squad just makes it messy because it’s still rolled by the old Charlie mains who are just not willing to play to the standard of cohesion expected from the smaller squads. As someone who was a perennial SL in Charlie for years, Charlie ended up as the comms duty squad not because it was that cohesive, but because it had great medics and other support personnel, but low quality and quantity of riflemen. So it always operated in a way “Assault” squads are seem to be expected to. You know, maybe Charlie should be transferred to the “Security” side of things and given the Bravo treatment. Thus the Almayer would have 3 platoons. 1st platoon being the “Assault” platoon with Alpha and Delta. 2nd platoon would be the “Security” platoon with Bravo and Charlie. And the 3rd platoon would be the “Support” platoon.
But the bigger thing that’s being bungled right now is that there’s currently no way to even opt out of the Support squads. You can probably latejoin as PFC, but other roles can’t. So those squads end up half filled with people who just don’t want to play that way. And since they’re so small as to be barely able to fight off two xenos at 100% cohesion, guess what’s gonna happen at 50%?
P. S. What would be even more culture appropriate is turning Alpha into a “Security” squad instead and then hard locking all the PVTs to it.
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You can opt out by just putting the support squads on the bottom of your priority list, but yeah. It kinda suffers from the Bravo SL treatment where every time you roundstart roll for SL you have a 1 in 4 chance of rolling something you didn’t want, though now the assault SL slots are now 2 instead of 3. Blacklists would be nice, but I think they’re a separate topic from ASS- This critique has been around for years.
Honestly, this all could’ve been avoided if Charlie was just an Assault squad with Alpha and Delta.
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I don’t know if they’re a separate topic, because ASS itself includes a refactor of the squad preference system, hence the selection thing. A toggle for rolling or not though is another layer of complexity, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t considering it.
To fill you guys in on the design aspect of things, we have a unique constraint in which not every player cares about the same thing. Some people want to prioritize rolling a certain squad, while others care about the role (specs are a good example of this). How we approach this part of the problem is really the big question right now, but I would like some way to know what squad you’re getting into ahead of time on latejoin, or to be sent back to lobby if you don’t roll your preference.
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I didn’t even say ass was bad or that charlie was even gone, I literally commented on it feeling emptier now and your response was a long winded post trying to treat me like a three year old who doesn’t know squad preferences exist.
This community is fucking insufferable sometimes
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That’d be really awesome, a squad blacklist has been a long time coming. I vastly prefer the squad selection UI over the specialist one, one day we’ll standardise them lol
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